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V15 Beta Testers (AI Updates)
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Tim Olson  
#1 Posted : Monday, March 11, 2024 1:14:05 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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We will shortly begin soliciting a select group of beta testers for V15.

This release will largely focusing on testing the integrating of AI into ViaCAD using:

1. RAG (retrieval augmented generation)
Leverages documentation and videos to respond to PunchCAD questions


2. CAD Data AI
Leverages mathematical properties and attributes of your data with AI. Use this to extract a variety of interesting information about your CAD file.

3. Use AI to find problems with your file


CAD and AI Update
Youtube video going over our implementation with ViaCAD along with some comments of our experience embedding AI and CAD.

https://youtu.be/ttKqFdcUlyE

Close up of the screens that let you see the questions and answers used in above video.

http://www.masterviacad.com/videos/v15AI/index.html

Our beta list will start off small and grow depending on how many issues the first team finds. If you are interested in AI and how it can impact CAD, this is a great opportunity for you to get involved in the early stages. Send me an email or private message me if you are interested.


Thanks!

Tim

Edited by user Monday, March 11, 2024 2:18:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Olson
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ZeroLengthCurve on 3/15/2024(UTC)
24c  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:00:51 AM(UTC)
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Hi Tim,

I quite like the idea that you can ask phrased questions a bit like Google/Bing does at the moment within a help or search context. I'm pretty sure I'd use that.
I like the idea about being able to ask questions about a part that is returning an error, as it's not always obvious where the problem is especially for an inexperienced user or hard to see where there are a "gaps in profile" when extruding a group for example. You don't always know off a group is planar or closed.
CAD Data AI looks like a reformat and a way of summarising of the Properties window, but for multiple objects at the moment, which works better than selecting one part, showing the properties, and selecting another meant you had to close the existing properties window, which was something I got used to.

I hope this Ai will develop into a modelling tool which works with constraints, that can be modded by asking questions within it.

Mike
macOS 14.3.1 (Sonoma) - MacBook M1 Max 64GB 2TB SSD & external display - SharkCAD Pro v14.1.0 build 1654
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damhave  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 12, 2024 2:03:18 PM(UTC)
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Will we get a stable (non WIP) v14 release before v15 is released?
kind regards Danny

Edited by user Tuesday, March 12, 2024 2:10:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling error

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UGMENTALCASE  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 1:50:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: damhave Go to Quoted Post
Will we get a stable (non WIP) v14 release before v15 is released?
kind regards Danny


Funny!
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CADCAM  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 3:56:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: UGMENTALCASE Go to Quoted Post
Funny!


I didn't know truth was funny.. But just as some feedback, I think AI development is the wrong direction. How many here care about that?
The way I see it punchCAD should be competeing with the likes of Fusion.. which given the latest price rise and cloud dependency is pissing everyone off. They have focused on intergrating CAM and 3D Slicing into their software because thats what customers want.
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UGMENTALCASE  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 4:38:51 AM(UTC)
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The funny is directed at getting a non WIP version of V14.
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24c  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 7:35:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CADCAM Go to Quoted Post

The way I see it punchCAD should be competeing with the likes of Fusion.. which given the latest price rise and cloud dependency is pissing everyone off. They have focused on intergrating CAM and 3D Slicing into their software because thats what customers want.


Ignoring the obvious jest at V14, I wouldn't need a slicing 3D print function within PunchCAD products, because other than using a mesh repair tool in the past, and doing some "retopo' aka reducing mesh complexity, my slicer of choice can slice STEP files now, which gives better results than using STLs. I've been 3D printing for 10 years now, and although I bought Simplify3D the progress in free slicer development has been huge in that time, and is getting better all the time (non planar printing, Full Control GCODE Designer, and Arc overhangs are some interesting developments).

CAM functionality would be nice, but that's a whole different minefield of compatibility re CNC hardware, so I couldn't see PunchCAD dipping their toes in this, as they have enough bug fixes to sort. :) Anyway, there are several packages out there that can import STEP files, that are more dedicated and not too pricey for CNC machine hobbyists.

Personally, I think PunchCAD should stick to improving toolsets that cater for the design aspects and not 3D additive or subtractive arenas.

However, I would like to see some Finite Element Analysis integration one day,(although Simscale was a product I found nice to use, which again imported my STEP exports) and this would work well into an AI environment, so you could ask conditional questions about a part and the software could apply adaptive modelling to the object. You see this in Fusion and others now.

Mike

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Jean-Francois Jacques  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 9:11:24 AM(UTC)
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Tim..a new tool for a fast action.

A quick tool for lengthening an oblique line.
At the moment with the gripper we can easily extend a horizontal or vertical line in both directions, but an oblique line we must change its length through the mesuring bar and move the line. Extend Tool is extend a curve !!
METEORE DESIGN / KEKO Stand
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posh.de  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 12:08:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post

This release will largely focusing on testing the integrating of AI...

surely great for marketing but with all the issues present in the software yet and since aeons (e.g. MTS or file corruption) and the real need to put more improvement and quality assurance to existing features and maybe porting the UI to a new interface (e.g. Qt) instead of implementing 'buzzing' functionality nobody realy needs it appears at least to me as a pretty ridiculous move... but surely much easier to implement than maintaining the existing stuff.

but hey, just venting, won't change anyhow
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MPSchmied on 3/14/2024(UTC), memphisjed on 3/17/2024(UTC), GARLIC on 8/13/2024(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 1:48:16 PM(UTC)
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I sincerely believe that AI can have a significant impact on an engineer's/designer's productivity. Check the video to completion regarding where I overview where the industry stands with CAD and AI. We’ve got problems but time should address these issues as the market will demand improvements.

After several months of embedding myself in AI tools, I believe the key areas where AI can help CAD:

1. RAG(retrieval augment generation) better use of resources for Q &A combined with general knowledge pool
2. Analyze my object/file. Perform an analysis on my data, or calculate new properties using general knowledge pool
3. What’s wrong with my object/file? Identify geometry/attribute issues related to CAD data plus using general knowledge pool of CAD issues
4. Create a part. Still to come with ViaCAD where you use scripting or image to 3D to create usable CAD parts
*general knowledge pool : the general knowledge of CAD, mechanical engineering, design standards that the LLM is trained upon.

I would love to engage with some open minded users as to how they think AI could help make them more productive. Nothing beats talking to an experienced user with problems they need solved.

I was very fortunate to be part of Lockheed’s team that transitioned the Advanced Design team from drafting boards to CAD. That was in 1983. There was a ton of resistance from some extremely talented but traditionally conservative aerospace engineers. The initial top issue we battled was resistance to go from a 6ft long drafting board to a small CAD monitor. Many felt there was no way they could be more productive on a small screen. But by benchmarking the process measuring productivity that included cost, time, and quality we quickly showed CAD prevailed. And integrating design with rapid 3D analysis for CFD, FEM, and CEM was huge, allowing us to lead the F-22 advanced design joint team. Soon project managers requested CAD engineers for staffing and those that did not transition were left behind. I believe we are at another point in Design, where an evolutionary technology will make a dramatic change in productivity that will mandate designers adapting new tools to compete.

Tim
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Ovocom on 3/14/2024(UTC), jlm on 3/14/2024(UTC), memphisjed on 3/21/2024(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 2:27:00 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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Build 1624 was the first release of V14. Currently we are at 1652 or 18 updates.

And of course, 1652 represents one thousand six hundred fifty two updated installers since this product was first released as CADD Pro.

As long as I'm involved, I would like to think this product is actively being updated contrary to some posters with alternative agendas. We have some people posting in this thread who are not using the current version and are basically “venting” past issues.

As a passionate developer, my biggest issue is duplicating a bug. I would like to big time thank those who provide step by step bug duplication. I understand that this requires your valuable time and as such I would like to commit that I will take the time to investigate. Thank you, thank you, so much for your passion to help improve this product!

Those of you who believe we should provide infinite updates are naive to the practical business of CAD. We have yearly maintenance and update costs independent of our updates.

Tim
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jlm on 3/14/2024(UTC)
CADCAM  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 2:38:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: UGMENTALCASE Go to Quoted Post
The funny is directed at getting a non WIP version of V14.


Well, the good news is at least in V15 I'll be able to ask AI why my gripper doesnt work?
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posh.de on 3/14/2024(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 2:44:03 PM(UTC)
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>>Well, the good news is at least in V15 I'll be able to ask AI why my gripper doesnt work?


The gripper is the most used tool I use in ViaCAD. I use it all the time. What are the conditions where it "does not work"?

Tim
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CADCAM  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2024 6:40:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
What are the conditions where it "does not work"?

Tim


Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
Confirmed, something is not right with the dialog size. Checking into...

Tim


Seems your onto the problem. Thanks.

Edited by user Wednesday, March 13, 2024 6:41:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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24c  
#15 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2024 3:00:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
As a passionate developer, my biggest issue is duplicating a bug.


My issue sometimes is I don't see as a bug more of a modelling quirk on my part. I used to help out on some defunct 3D printer slicer software years back, and could find crash logs etc for this, and they were helpful for de-bugging builds and adding new features to a very undocumented source code. I've no idea where the system logs are for SharkCAD Pro, but as the software is running in Rosetta 2 in M series macOS hardware, it's hard to know whether it's macOS or PunchCAD related.

The other day I shelled a part, and although a shell operation showed up in concept explorer, the part looked unchanged on the screen, however if I used the Push Pull tool the surface pulled down in Z and the shelled part was underneath. which suggested there was potentially a bug lurking. I have to be honest I just worked around it, as I needed to 3D print the part. I usually find when I look back at the model history, that if I see an ACIS solid in concept explorer, instead of a story tree for the part, this is an indication something has failed or there's a bug.

I know how hard it is on a small scale when you develop some software for your passion project and release it for others to try and they get all sorts of problems, and how time consuming it is ... mostly it not your fault, or they want the latest and greatest options and can't understand the interface won't allow it without breaking something else, so don't be disheartened by negativity. I'm grateful for CAD software that works how I see shapes (Ashlar Vellum was my first intro), and not having to drop into Sketch planes to draw objects and be tied into ridiculous subscriptions for my use set, despite my occasional external monitor woes.

Mike
macOS 14.3.1 (Sonoma) - MacBook M1 Max 64GB 2TB SSD & external display - SharkCAD Pro v14.1.0 build 1654
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GARLIC on 3/14/2024(UTC), MPSchmied on 3/14/2024(UTC)
GARLIC  
#16 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2024 4:53:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
>>Well, the good news is at least in V15 I'll be able to ask AI why my gripper doesnt work?


The gripper is the most used tool I use in ViaCAD. I use it all the time. What are the conditions where it "does not work"?

Tim


May be that "Devin" might fit into your AI-Context:
https://www.cognition-labs.com/blog
Best regards
G.
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MPSchmied  
#17 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:07:43 AM(UTC)
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Will this AI model be available offline, and how extensive is the knowledge base of this AI model? I use the paid version of ChatGPT, for example, which is not available offline, and it would surely be too large and comprehensive to run offline.

Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
The gripper is the most used tool I use in ViaCAD. I use it all the time. What are the conditions where it "does not work"?

I never use the gripper. If the focus of development is solely on the further development of the gripper and traditional construction methods are not improved, that goes against my interests.
Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
We have some people posting in this thread who are not using the current version and are basically “venting” past issues.

Those are people like me. I would be pleased if an ancient bug is finally fixed in v.15.

Edited by user Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:20:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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posh.de on 3/14/2024(UTC)
damhave  
#18 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2024 9:10:34 AM(UTC)
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Will we get a stable (non WIP) v14 release before v15 is released?

(From http://www.masterviacad.com/ " WIP: Work in Progress build of an existing release leading to a service pack requiring a serial number. Notice: WIP and Beta builds have limited testing. Use at you own risk")

kind regards Danny
BR
Danny

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Tim Olson  
#19 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2024 10:33:19 PM(UTC)
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Here is an example the TurboCAD forum asked me to check Copilot regarding aluminum beam extrusion weight calculation with hole removal.

Tim

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Tim Olson
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Tim Olson  
#20 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2024 10:34:49 PM(UTC)
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>>Will we get a stable (non WIP) v14 release before v15 is released?

We have another build coming up this weekend (1653) with the Inspector Gripper user axis fixed and several other minor issues.

Tim

Edited by user Friday, March 15, 2024 1:09:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Olson
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