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ACIS Error When Using Skin Solid (#3110)
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mlochala  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:14:01 PM(UTC)
mlochala

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I'm getting this error message when trying to create a solid from a group of closed profiles:

"ACIS Error Surface U and V are in the same or opposite direction.: Section_8596"

What does this mean and how do I fix it? Or avoid it?
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Steve.M  
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:40:28 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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What tool are you using? Can you post a screenshot and/or the profile curves.
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mlochala  
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:49:02 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Here you go!

By the way, another question....is it better to have a closed profile of multiple curves, or to have a profile of curves joined into one single curve?
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Steve.M  
#4 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:59:26 AM(UTC)
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Use group(edit menu) to group each of the profiles before you skin.
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mlochala  
#5 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:05:02 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Here's the error...
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Steve.M  
#6 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:07:32 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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I just edited my previous post with answer.

When using skin solid, you need each profile to be closed. You could join all the curves together, but that can add curvature to the join points (not always wanted). If you select all the curve that make up a single profile, then group them, then do the same for the other profiles, then select skin solid, press the shift key, then select the profiles in correct order.
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mlochala  
#7 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2010 8:42:05 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Thanks Steve! That works, but I'm getting some strange results. I'm getting some weird twisting going on, and it's not consistent. If I undo and then try again, it does it a little different. I'll will post later when I return home.
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Steve.M  
#8 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2010 4:49:10 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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If you would post the actual curves (VC file) that would help a lot. Also, please post your OS and which build number of VC you are using (you can find that on the splash screen, go to the help menu in VC and select "About").


- Steve
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NickB  
#9 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2010 5:22:36 PM(UTC)
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U's and V's refer to the direction of the curves and lines that you are using to make up your sections.

Ideally you want all of them to flow in either a clockwise or anti-clockwise direction, and for that flow to be in the same direction on all of your sections.

The screen shots below show good U&V's in the first image, and bad in the second, where some lines have the same direction and some do not.

You can check and correct U&V's by selecting all the lines and then going to Verify > Show Direction. To change the direction of a line or curve select it and then contextual menu drop down to change direction, or go Edit > Change Direction.

When different lines / curves have different directions this sometimes leads to kinks in the resulting surfaces / solids.
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good.png (57kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
bad.png (52kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Shark FX 9 build 1143
OS X 9.5
3.6 GHz Core i7, 8GB, GTX 760 2GB

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Steve.M  
#10 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2010 6:25:24 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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The error is very inconsistent. A lot of the time it just appears that the program does not know what it is doing.

There are times when I know that the curves within a group do not all follow the same direction and VC as no problems. There are other times when all the curves follow the same direction but there is still this error.

Going from your explanation, then the curves below should fail with error on attempt of skin solid, but they do not.
Steve.M attached the following image(s):
01.png (39kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
02.png (34kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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jol  
#11 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:46:16 AM(UTC)
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I agree with Steve

Inconsistency can be more annoying for a CAD user than a tool that doesn't work at all.

I have never been able to predict what will resolve and what will not

There's a rabbit off somewhere
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Steve.M  
#12 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:34:40 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
There's a rabbit off somewhere


But how deep the hole :D


@mlochala

If you post the file, then we can find out why the error.


- Steve
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mlochala  
#13 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 6:18:04 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Here is a copy of the file itself, along with a .jpg explanatory file.

I never knew about curve direction, NickB. I made some adjustments and got a little better result.

When I select the first five profiles, I get a good solid. When I select the first six profiles, I get something unusable. It appears to be a shell, but you can't do anything with it.

When I select all profiles, I either get another unusable "shell" or I get a message about some kind of "cusp error".

I just don't know what else to do. This is beyond my learning!!!! LOL!

Thanks for the help so far, guys!
File Attachment(s):
Profiles.vc3 (44kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
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Skin Solid Problem.jpg (96kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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mlochala  
#14 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 6:20:54 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Apparently there is something different (besides the simple shape) of the sixth and seventh profiles that I just can't seem to figure out.
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Steve.M  
#15 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 7:01:37 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Hi mlochala,

The problem there is due to the (different) number of segments in each group/profile. VC is not sure which way to loft (from which segment in the group to loft to the next segment) and you get that twisting.

I made a quick edit and it looks OK.

I will post info to show what I did, I just need a little time to finish of another little job.(only about 20 minutes)


- Steve
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Steve.M  
#16 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:17:21 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Hello again,

OK, when I un-grouped the sections I could see that there where a different number of segments in each group, that can cause VC problems, It is better if you can have the same number in each group.
What I did was to check how each part of the skin would be made along the segments, then found where the problem areas where, then used the "segment at location" to cut the segments so that they then lined up for the skin (and made each profile have the same number of segments).
I know this may appear a little long winded, but once in the habit of correct construction, it is quite easy.

I have made a quick Mov to show the process. There is no sound, and I did this in VC 2d/3d (I do have shortcut keys setup, but did not use them so you could see what I selected). I did the "segment at location" cuts just by eye, but of course, better results could be gained by taking a little more time to line the segment cuts up better.

I have also attached the resulting skin solid.

http://dc204.4shared.com/downlo...4/5ca8bdf/Skin_solid.mov
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mlochala  
#17 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:46:21 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Thank you, Steve!

I must be missing something because I followed your tutorial (which was great by the way) and I'm still getting a "shell".... Any more ideas?
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Steve.M  
#18 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:51:02 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Did you make sure each profile as the same number of segments?

Post the model as it is with the shell surface and I will have a look.

What version/build number of VC are you using?


- Steve
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mlochala  
#19 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:31:21 AM(UTC)
mlochala

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Hey Steve, thanks again for your help. Here it is yet again. Looks like it is still doing the same thing. It will give me what I want until Group 9112 is included, then it all goes to pot.

If I skip 9112 and go to 9156, I get the ACIS Error message again.

Could this be a hardware issue? Or is this strictly something within ViaCAD? I've run SolidWorks on this computer before with no probs.
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Steve.M  
#20 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:00:34 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Hi,

You need to try segmenting again.
If you check, you added an extra segment to the front profile. I did not check further.

Download the model I posted, delete the skin solid and check that you can skin solid those profiles.

You still have not said which build number of VC you are using, if it an old build it may have a bug.


- Steve
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