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curtk  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 21, 2023 12:31:08 PM(UTC)
curtk

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is there going to be a point where the blend tool will ever be fixed for doing solid models ?
Not a single version since v8 has treated me well and far too often I am having to export from v14 to v8 in order to do blends . It seems pointless that I upgrade every time a new version comes out just to find myself still having to rely on an old version .

v8 is weak on this as it is but at least I can get close to what I want . I've brought this up many times before , provided examples and it seems nothing gets done about this
Sorry if this sounds like a complaint but it's frustrating with these freezes and the weakness of the blending tool
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MPSchmied on 11/22/2023(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 21, 2023 12:42:27 PM(UTC)
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The Chamfer and Blend tools in the app are directly calling ACIS SDK procedures from Spatial Dassault.

Some of the more common issues for an edge not blending includes:

--tolerance/topo issues along an edge: You can see if there are any tol/topo issues with a part by using Verify : Check Object

--curvature constraints : the radius is to high for the given curvature and it's impossible to create a "rolling ball" blend at the radius value

--order of blends : try switching the oder of blend edges if you have shared vertices among separate edges

--split your part and blend the splits. this also helps locate shelling issues.

Alternatively I have seen fixed width blends work where rolling ball blends fail. The fixed width algorithm is completely different and sometimes more forgiving than rolling blend. And import/export your part to STEP and sometimes repair tolerances.

Tim

Edited by user Tuesday, November 21, 2023 12:46:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
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jlm on 11/21/2023(UTC)
curtk  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 21, 2023 2:14:20 PM(UTC)
curtk

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it seems odd to me that an old version like v8 is much more powerful than all the newer versions and less likely to crash , though it still can and will .
I don't simply fillet square edges , a lot of my work is blending curved into curves to creature organic types of shapes . Crashes/freezes can happen on quite simple blends with all the versions newer than v8 .
I worked with and designed in mastercam for quite a few years and often forced fillets to almost no end . I don't expect it with viacad but often what should be a simple blend immediately locks up the software . The most frustrating thing is to not get an error message or something other than having to restart the software .

Unfortunately I get the impression that things aren't going to change . I was hoping through the updates or new versions I'd see some improvements but I'll continue using the old version
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MPSchmied on 11/22/2023(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 21, 2023 3:39:18 PM(UTC)
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If you can provide a file with steps to repeat, I will send that to Dassault for response.

I can also try the part in TurboCAD and see if that handles it differently. I have access to source code and can compare with ViaCAD/Shark blend.

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
curtk  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 21, 2023 5:34:34 PM(UTC)
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I've sent examples before which you guys tested and verified . The last one wasn't all that long ago , previous version if I remember right . Turbocad and shark produced the same results

Edited by user Tuesday, November 21, 2023 5:35:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damhave on 11/22/2023(UTC)
curtk  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2024 1:17:39 PM(UTC)
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Tim here is a simple example of the issues I've had with blends from all versions beyond v8 . In v8 I can push a blend between both ellipses quite easily and quite far where the latest v14 version can barely make a blend . This was saved as a v8 file so it can be tested on both the old and new versions . This issue seriously cripples the designs I try to accomplish
I can often accomplish what I need with the newer version depending on the design , but for the most part I need to rely on v8 which isn't perfect but it is much stronger for creating oddball blends .
I've talked with Todd once before about this and though there was some improvements made at the time because of this (v12) it was still weak

Edited by user Tuesday, March 19, 2024 1:29:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damhave on 3/19/2024(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2024 2:18:26 PM(UTC)
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Wow!


Blending in ViaCAD is mostly powered by ACIS. ACIS has the ability to set the version of the algorithm. I tried your file in the current version where the best I could get was around 0.2 inch blend.

Then I versioned the blend procedure to an older version. By doing that I was able to get 1.4 inch blends!

Do I have permission to send your file to Spatial? I'm not sure the ramifications of changing the blend version and want their input on the consequences.

Awesome find!

Tim
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Tim Olson
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24c  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2024 3:27:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
I tried your file in the current version where the best I could get was around 0.2 inch blend.


Not sure what is happening, but first few times I tried using "10mm radius"?** SharkCAD locked up, so had to Force Quit, when I reopened file, defaults was 0.39" for radius, which then locked up again, so another force quit... re-opened test file, tried 1.9 inches and it worked using build 1652

Mike

Edited by user Tuesday, March 19, 2024 3:32:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: added build number **10 was probably inches on import, but last saved setting was 10mm

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macOS 14.3.1 (Sonoma) - MacBook M1 Max 64GB 2TB SSD & external display - SharkCAD Pro v14.1.0 build 1652
Tim Olson  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2024 3:33:30 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Mike for that info, will keep looking into the inconsistent behavior.

Tim
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curtk  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2024 8:26:16 PM(UTC)
curtk

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Yes Tim please supply that to them , that is only a test example to show you and not anything of importance . I just downloaded the latest build last night and this is always the first type of test I do .
If you try v8 you'll find you can push it much further than 1.4" . The below I pushed it to 1000" rad . It's not often I can get near that without the software freezing and locking up but it seems to like it this time

As I mentioned previously - I had talked to Todd about this in version 12 I believe but it could have be one before . Some improvement was made at the time but it never got back to being near the same strength as version 8 . With similar stuff can easily freeze v8 on small blends , so it wasn't perfect

I used to do similar blends in mastercam , and with that I was always able to push blends into blends to an extreme . Even v8 could never keeps up to what I was able to do , but it is the strongest version for this .
I don't expect the power of what I was used to with mastercam , but picking up viacad afterwards was beautiful because it had a similar feel to what I was used to .

I have to say that this is my only gripe with the software and if this feature can be resolved and possibly made strongest of all other versions then you'll have made at least one guy super happy

Edited by user Tuesday, March 19, 2024 8:35:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Tim Olson  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2024 9:29:59 PM(UTC)
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>>Yes Tim please supply that to them

Thanks, will do. I was able to do 1000 inch and the part seems to still check out as valid, including able to do a thin shell operation.

I won't be able to add in a V14 service pack as it looks like I'm going to have make file format changes to store an ACIS version number associated with each blend feature. I'll also need to check if this is also impacts chamfers and variable radius blends.

But, there is still time to add into V15 as that file format is not yet locked down.


Tim

Edited by user Tuesday, March 19, 2024 9:33:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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curtk  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 20, 2024 11:09:23 AM(UTC)
curtk

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Thanks i appreciate this .
I totally understand if it can't be added to the current version but it would be great if it can be done for v15 .
As mentioned before v8 had it's weakness's as well and I've had freeze ups on what should have been simple blends . I was quite surprised with how far I was able to push the example I provided , normally I'd never be able to create a blend as large .

I create a lot of organic shapes , most of this involves joining and blending a bunch of geometries together to get the shape I want . I think with normal every day parts the blend works perfectly fine , but it's with the oddball shapes where the struggle is

Edited by user Wednesday, March 20, 2024 11:10:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Olson  
#13 Posted : Thursday, March 21, 2024 8:06:41 PM(UTC)
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I've added into the Blend Options for constant radius and curvature blends a VERSION drop down.

Still waiting on Dassault/Spatial for their feedback, but they typically take a while to review bugs and even longer to fix.

In your case, you will set the version blend to earlier before you blend. It will stick for the entire session and get attached to the specific feature for regens. So far I've found no issues using this, but again need feedback from Spatial. Every time I use the new blend version, I double check potential issues using the new ai checks and the results "so far" seem fine. I've also been testing against a bunch of blend files I have for regression testing.


Tim

Edited by user Thursday, March 21, 2024 8:43:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Tim Olson
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memphisjed on 3/21/2024(UTC)
curtk  
#14 Posted : Thursday, March 21, 2024 8:59:13 PM(UTC)
curtk

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that's an interesting approach and if it works as you say then it's a good solution for the time being . Is this something that could be implemented into a v14 build or would this be more into v15 ?
Tim Olson  
#15 Posted : Thursday, March 21, 2024 9:22:21 PM(UTC)
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>>Is this something that could be implemented into a v14 build or would this be more into v15 ?

Unfortunately this is not a v14 solution. This change requires that each feature blend has a new version tag associated with the ACIS regeneration method.

Currently there is no provision to store an ACIS version associated with a PunchCAD feature. I wrongly assumed that each ACIS version would only get better regarding certain operations. But V15 will change storing of this tag.

My apologies, but I cannot change the file format for a service pack. File formats need to be associated with a major release.

On the positive note, all solid modeling features now have a version associated with it where if we come across this issue in the future, we can choose a version of ACIS. As of tonight, this is applicable for G1 radial blends and G2 radial blends.

It obviously begs the question why an ACIS operation worked in a previous build but not a newer build. We need Dassault Spatial to respond to that and get your file into their regression testing. Their regression testing protocols follow the same for CATIA which are very strict.

Tim

Edited by user Thursday, March 21, 2024 9:44:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
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