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relaxibus  
#1 Posted : Friday, December 2, 2022 6:34:11 AM(UTC)
relaxibus

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Finally, it seems some progressing for Apple Silicon version of the ACIS kernel:

https://www.engineering....catching-up-to-parasolid

https://www.businesswire...-the-Release-of-2023-1.0

https://blog.spatial.com/news/2023-1-0

Edited by user Friday, December 2, 2022 6:38:06 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users thanked relaxibus for this useful post.
Birger on 12/3/2022(UTC), GARLIC on 12/5/2022(UTC)
relaxibus  
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 17, 2022 6:33:51 AM(UTC)
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When can we expect new kernel 2023 be integrated in SFX?
GARLIC  
#3 Posted : Saturday, December 17, 2022 7:26:16 AM(UTC)
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Well, the previous information policy about future bug fixes and new developments was virtually non-existent. This is a great pity, because it is also linked to investment plans of companies that want to know where things are going. - The competition never sleeps.
Best Regards
G.
2murray  
#4 Posted : Saturday, December 17, 2022 5:09:51 PM(UTC)
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A couple of users on the TC forums report that they can use current 32-bit TC PC versions, ACIS V29, on ARM Apple and Windows, I don't remember offhand whether it's Rosetta or other virtualisation on Mac, but not 64-bit. I asked whether that gave them the high-end CATIA, NX translators, but that question hasn't been answered yet. I suspect not but I remember Tim saying years back that those were exclusively PC 64-bit when they were first integrated into Shark, I've no idea if that's still so.

That article continues the historic Parasolid/ACIS prejudice. SolidWork developers reportedly tried ACIS when they were a startup, quickly abandoned it for Parasolid because it was clearly inferior at that time. I used TurboCAD Solid Modeler before the turn of the century. It was a lightweight modeller very similar to Alibre, originally developed by Corel and sold as CorelCAD before IMSI bought it. It came with CorelScript scripting and LightWorks rendering of the time, too, which had an external texture/material editor. The initial version used ACIS V2 and it was a bit of a horror, crash prone unstable. Quickly updated to ACIS V4 which was much better. After that, IMSI discontinued Solid Modeller when it made TC Pro 3D, and started introducing the advantages that ACIS gave it into TC Pro, its mainstream line, and also the D-Cubed constraints that were in Solid Modeller, now in PunchCAD, Shark only to V8.

Edited by user Saturday, December 17, 2022 5:40:38 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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GARLIC on 12/18/2022(UTC), specktech on 12/30/2022(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#5 Posted : Sunday, December 18, 2022 12:42:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: relaxibus Go to Quoted Post
When can we expect new kernel 2023 be integrated in SFX?



We were provided the ARM libs recently. Unfortunately not soon enough to fit into a full test of ACIS. I usually need 2-3 months to test/tweak new versions.

Spatial typically depreciates APIs and adds new ones so it's not just a library drop switching from ACIS 2022 to ACIS 2023.

That combined with the need to get out the Mac version ASAP to address macOS Ventura.

I'm currently planning on a V14 service pack to include ACIS 2023....


Tim
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specktech on 12/30/2022(UTC)
relaxibus  
#6 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2022 4:37:25 AM(UTC)
relaxibus

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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: relaxibus Go to Quoted Post
When can we expect new kernel 2023 be integrated in SFX?


That combined with the need to get out the Mac version ASAP to address macOS Ventura.

I'm currently planning on a V14 service pack to include ACIS 2023....


Tim


Will then V14 with the service pack a native Apple Silicon variant or still Rosetta based? What about Metal support? I think this are two main topics to address in order to give a clear future proof roadmap to SFX. Any idea of the CATIA & Co translator, till now for Windows only, will be also available for the Mac version?
Even if you say, this all will be addressed on v15, that will be fine. What actually I see is a very poor graphic performance compared to other CADs like FreeCAD. Just one point I mentioned in a topic, never answered by the way, is the performance degradation when you group objects and then try to move. On imported STEP file it become unusable.
thanks 1 user thanked relaxibus for this useful post.
GARLIC on 12/19/2022(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#7 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2022 8:44:02 AM(UTC)
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>>Will then V14 with the service pack a native Apple Silicon variant or still Rosetta based?

I don't have a date I can provide for SP1 other than I'm very excited.

>>What about Metal support?

The plan is to switch our display graphics to ODA Visualize, which will be a layer on top of Metal.
Our TurboCAD Windows product implemented ODA Visualize which is significantly faster than PunchCAD 3d graphics pipeline.



>>Any idea of the CATIA & Co translator, till now for Windows only, will be also available for the Mac version?
There is a CATIA v4, but there is no plan by Spatial to provide CATIA v6 or higher on Mac. Spatial uses DLLs directly from CATIA to support this translator and there are no plans for CATIA to be supported on Mac that I'm aware of.

>>Just one point I mentioned in a topic, never answered by the way, is the performance degradation when you group objects and then try to move.
That may be related to our implementation of groups and something we can address independently of above.

Tim


Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
thanks 2 users thanked Tim Olson for this useful post.
Birger on 12/21/2022(UTC), specktech on 12/30/2022(UTC)
relaxibus  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, December 21, 2022 2:43:16 AM(UTC)
relaxibus

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>>Will then V14 with the service pack a native Apple Silicon variant or still Rosetta based?

I don't have a date I can provide for SP1 other than I'm very excited.

But will this SP1 be Apple Silicon native?


>>What about Metal support?

The plan is to switch our display graphics to ODA Visualize, which will be a layer on top of Metal.
Our TurboCAD Windows product implemented ODA Visualize which is significantly faster than PunchCAD 3d graphics pipeline.

That would be great!!


>>Any idea of the CATIA & Co translator, till now for Windows only, will be also available for the Mac version?
There is a CATIA v4, but there is no plan by Spatial to provide CATIA v6 or higher on Mac. Spatial uses DLLs directly from CATIA to support this translator and there are no plans for CATIA to be supported on Mac that I'm aware of.

A shame for the Mac users. Shame on Spatial!

>>Just one point I mentioned in a topic, never answered by the way, is the performance degradation when you group objects and then try to move.
That may be related to our implementation of groups and something we can address independently of above.

Great! How do should we proceed on this topic?


thanks 2 users thanked relaxibus for this useful post.
GARLIC on 12/21/2022(UTC), Birger on 12/21/2022(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, December 21, 2022 9:32:22 AM(UTC)
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>>But will this SP1 be Apple Silicon native?
Yes, universal binary supporting native on Silicon and native on Intel.


A shame for the Mac users. Shame on Spatial!

On Dassault... I would very much like to see the SolidWorks translators on Mac without using bootcamp or parallels.


>>How do should we proceed on this topic?[/b]

I'm aware of steps to repeat, just need time to run some performance tests to isolate location.


Tim
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specktech on 12/30/2022(UTC)
2murray  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, December 21, 2022 5:23:27 PM(UTC)
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Am I right in thinking about ARM being like a RISC arrangement, something like the old Apple Power PC CPUs? If so, can they use 64-bit natively and does it limit extended RAM usage?
relaxibus  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, April 18, 2023 2:12:22 AM(UTC)
relaxibus

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After 5 months I'm ringing again the Punch door bell to see how is going on with the following topics:
1) >>Shark V14 SPI for native Apple Silicon support

2) Metal support
>>The plan is to switch our display graphics to ODA Visualize, which will be a layer on top of Metal.
>>Our TurboCAD Windows product implemented ODA Visualize which is significantly faster than PunchCAD 3d graphics pipeline.

3) >>Just one point I mentioned in a topic, never answered by the way, is the performance degradation when you group objects and then try to move.
That may be related to our implementation of groups and something we can address independently of above.


I'm planing to swap my Mac mini M1 vs a M2 or even a Mac Studio M1 Max. The main question is: Do will Shark with native Apple Silicon and Metal support take advantage of all the CPU and GPU cores?
Tim Olson  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, April 18, 2023 3:50:17 PM(UTC)
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Now that Windows and Mac have been released, our goal is to get out a v14 service pack based on the WIP builds.

Once the service pack is out we will then begin work on native silicon support.

And then begin work on V15 which will implement the first phase of ODA Visualize.
Visualize creates a cross platform layer on top of Mac(Metal)/Windows latest rendering technologies.
The technology does take advantage of cpu/gpu but to what extent we need to get further along.
Our TurboCAD Windows product using Visualize has shown compelling performance/feature improvements over basic OpenGL.

The plan is to continue to create V14 service packs and WIP builds while the longer process of V15 is worked on.


Tim
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CNC_Kid  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, April 18, 2023 9:02:37 PM(UTC)
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What exactly are the diffs between TurboCAD vs ViaCAD vs SharkCAD?

VCpro v11-1417
Win10Pro 32GB
Xeon E3-1270-v3 3.5GHz
Asrock Extreme 9ac
Samsung SSD RAID5
nvidia GTX760
Tim Olson  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 18, 2023 9:32:27 PM(UTC)
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>>What exactly are the diffs between TurboCAD vs ViaCAD /SharkCAD?

TurboCAD Windows is a Windows only CAD application that was created by IMSI Design.

ViaCAD, SharkCAD, and TurboCAD Mac are cross platform applications originally created by CADSoft Solutions and then acquired by Punch Software -> Encore Software -> IMSI Design.

They are vastly different code streams that do not share native file compatibility.


Tim


Tim Olson
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relaxibus  
#15 Posted : Thursday, April 20, 2023 3:32:25 AM(UTC)
relaxibus

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>>The technology does take advantage of cpu/gpu but to what extent we need to get further along.
So that means if I have more CPU and GPU cores I will get a better performance? I'm planning to swap my Mac mini M1 to a Mac Mini M2 Pro or Mac Studio M1 Max with all at least 10 CPU and 16 GPU cores. With v15 will I feel a great improvement in handling 3D visualizations (we still have the slow object group moving) movements and rotating?

>>The plan is to continue to create V14 service packs and WIP builds while the longer process of V15 is worked on.
When can we expect v15?
thanks 1 user thanked relaxibus for this useful post.
damhave on 4/20/2023(UTC)
Tim Olson  
#16 Posted : Thursday, April 20, 2023 11:14:02 AM(UTC)
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>>So that means if I have more CPU and GPU cores I will get a better performance?

I checked with our TC Visualize developer this morning. He said yes and yes. However he develops with a high end Nvidia card on Windows. We won't know how the technology works on Mac until we get further along. ODA, the creators of Visualize, do have an implementation native for ARM (M1/M2) technology ready for integration.

You can try out their Mac M1 desktop viewer below...
Viewer
https://www.opendesign.com/guestfiles/oda_viewer
Info...
https://www.opendesign.com/products/visualize
>>we still have the slow object group moving) movements and rotating?

I suspect that is an issue related to how PunchCAD is displaying groups and not dependent on OpenGL, Visualize, etc. I'd like to say that could be an issue addressed in a service pack but need to look into further.

>>When can we expect v15?
Roughly a year from now.


Tim


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MPSchmied on 4/20/2023(UTC), Christian Hallauer on 4/27/2023(UTC), 24c on 12/5/2023(UTC)
relaxibus  
#17 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2023 3:16:30 AM(UTC)
relaxibus

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Cool!

Unfortunately the ODA Viewer doesn't support step files, so almost useless for performance comparison on Mac.

Looking forward to all this exiting new performance features, including the groups movement issue.

Thanks!
Tim Olson  
#18 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2023 10:02:54 AM(UTC)
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>>Unfortunately the ODA Viewer doesn't support step files, so almost useless for performance comparison on Mac.

You can take a large file from PunchCAD and export as a DWG file.

The ACIS data is embedded into the DWG file and should read into the ODA viewer.

They have a FPS in the upper left corner of the screen for measuring speed.

Tim

Edited by user Friday, April 21, 2023 10:04:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Olson
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Christian Hallauer on 4/27/2023(UTC)
relaxibus  
#19 Posted : Monday, December 4, 2023 3:03:34 AM(UTC)
relaxibus

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Rising up the Apple Silicon topic. After one year, is there any progress regrind the native Apple Silicon version of Shark?
GARLIC  
#20 Posted : Monday, December 4, 2023 11:47:27 AM(UTC)
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Well, when can we have ACIS Geometric Kernel v 2024.0.1 ???
seems to be quite interesting:
https://blog.spatial.com/news/2024-1-0
best regards
G.
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