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jfc1068		#1 Posted : Friday, September 4, 2009 5:16:15 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member Joined: 7/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 68		When will someone please pay attention? Drawing lines do not equate to printed line widths. Tim, I can't undertstand how you can say nothing is wrong? See attached. File Attachment(s): ViaCAD (rafter 2.pdf (71kb) downloaded 0 time(s). jfc1068 attached the following image(s): ViaCAD (rafter 2).jpg (50kb) downloaded 0 time(s). You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.


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ShawnDriscoll		#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 8, 2009 10:47:21 PM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Joined: 8/22/2009(UTC) Posts: 27		I have the same problem in ViaCAD Pro 6 831. The only pen style choices that mostly work for me are "ignore" and "Use Object Color". The pen style choices perform the wrong function with the wrong hard-coded values. Some Shark features are missing obviously. But ViaCAD (and Pro) still need some Shark programming code to do basic layout design.
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jfc1068		#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 4:07:32 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member Joined: 7/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 68		It is obvious that there are two issues here. 1. No one ever thought they needed to print out drawings. 2. These are programmers, not drafters, and they do not understand the basic rules of drafting. Pen weights play a specific funtion in drawings.


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ttrw		#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 4:31:21 PM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member Joined: 4/1/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,583 Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)		I think you got it bang on there jfc. These were the main reasons I never upgraded to Shark LT. I emailed Cadsoftsolutions here in the UK several times, and tried in vain to try to get Nick to realise why I had a problem with the drafting tools/ print quality in Shark. The ends of entities all looked wrong- they need to be nice and rounded off- and rounded off to a precise point- and they weren't. Worse still, when two entities came together, or I sketched a circle, these looked course, even with the resolution turned up. It just looked horrible. But Nick insisted that he hadn't had any complaints, which I was very surprised about. In the end, I gave up correspondence, because I felt we were going nowhere, and Nick's demands for me to explain- well I felt he wasn't getting it, and I just don't have the time to print endless screenshots off. Sorry Nick, but there you go. So I've stuck with ViaCAD, and given up on the 2D drafting tools within the software, altogether. I have gone back to using Ribbonsoft's QCad for the time (Tim, Nick, Ryan, et al, you should look at how the drafting works in QCad- it's excellent, and it only costs $32!). I've been also considering Highdesign for 2D (Mac only), for an update on QCad, eventually perhaps. ViaCAD is fine for some of the technical modelling for 3D, but utterly hopeless for 2D drafting. I really hope that v6/7 brings many much needed 2D drafting updates- so fingers crossed.


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ShawnDriscoll		#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 4:51:05 PM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Joined: 8/22/2009(UTC) Posts: 27		There's obviously a missing control that ViaCAD needs from Shark if it is to even try doing pen widths. Until then, ViaCAD needs to be patched so that all of its pen styles are hard-coded to the same pen width. The other problem ViaCAD has is centering and aligning an object when re-scaling it inside of the red dotted box. Again, it's a missing Shark feature that is only confusing the layout module.
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jdi000		#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 5:18:10 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration Joined: 7/29/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,862 Thanks: 1 times Was thanked: 87 time(s) in 81 post(s)		Hi Guys I am not sure what the differences between Shark and ViaCAD is for printing? Shark has precise line mode in model to sheet but I think printing is the same other than that? I seem to get line widths to print ok, I usually print to pdf file and goto setting in pdf viewer to display line weights and they are ok. Remember the line weight scales to the scale you print to so I just create custom pen styles if I know I am printing in half or quarter scale. Jason
		Windows 11, 10


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ShawnDriscoll		#7 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 5:27:05 PM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Joined: 8/22/2009(UTC) Posts: 27		Originally Posted by: jdi000 Hi Guys I am not sure what the differences between Shark and ViaCAD is for printing? Shark has precise line mode in model to sheet but I think printing is the same other than that? I seem to get line widths to print ok First of all, do you have both ViaCAD and Shark? If so, compare their model sheet dialog control options. Shark has way more drawing options to click on. Yes, both programs create a PDF file. But that doesn't make them the same program. They both just use the same PDF generator, but not the same drawing previewer. If saying, what's the difference -- they both print the same, etc., Punch will not bother fixing the ViaCAD (Pro) bug.
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jdi000		#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 6:12:48 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration Joined: 7/29/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,862 Thanks: 1 times Was thanked: 87 time(s) in 81 post(s)		Originally Posted by: ShawnDriscoll First of all, do you have both ViaCAD and Shark? If so, compare their model sheet dialog control options. Shark has way more drawing options to click on. Yes, both programs create a PDF file. But that doesn't make them the same program. They both just use the same PDF generator, but not the same drawing previewer. If saying, what's the difference -- they both print the same, etc., Punch will not bother fixing the ViaCAD (Pro) bug. Shawn What bug is it your are referring to? I print to a pdf driver since I am on windows. Thanks Jason
		Windows 11, 10


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jfc1068		#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 6:25:18 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member Joined: 7/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 68		look at the files I attached in the top post. Those are the real issues here.


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ShawnDriscoll		#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 6:38:53 PM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Joined: 8/22/2009(UTC) Posts: 27		Originally Posted by: jdi000 Shawn What bug is it your are referring to? I print to a pdf driver since I am on windows. Thanks Jason Originally Posted by: jfc1068 When will someone please pay attention? You can bring a horse to water... :)
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jdi000		#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:01:52 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration Joined: 7/29/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,862 Thanks: 1 times Was thanked: 87 time(s) in 81 post(s)		Originally Posted by: ShawnDriscoll You can bring a horse to water... :) Shawn I am not trying to be smart here, but I don't see these print issues with line weights in windows. There are a few things about line weights. 1. It will print the line weight scaled to the print scale. ie if a draw view is 1/2 scale all lineweights will print half their set weight. 2. There are 3 settings view as printed, view line scaled, and view not scaled. so the way a line looks on the screen may or not print that way based on print scale and or view settings. So its true drawing lines do not always print as displayed, but paying attention to 1 and 2 point above can help get the printed weight you want as well as adjusting your setting to display the line weight the way you prefer. Jason jdi000 attached the following image(s): pen weights display pref.PNG (18kb) downloaded 0 time(s). You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
		Windows 11, 10


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chipmaker2		#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 8:36:15 PM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member Joined: 5/24/2008(UTC) Posts: 129 Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)		Printed line weights ViaCad 2D3D see attached files for PDF and screen shot. File Attachment(s): Line weights ViaCAD2D3D.pdf (6kb) downloaded 0 time(s). chipmaker2 attached the following image(s): Line weights ViaCad 2D3D.jpg (59kb) downloaded 0 time(s). You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.


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ShawnDriscoll		#13 Posted : Wednesday, September 9, 2009 9:18:20 PM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Joined: 8/22/2009(UTC) Posts: 27		Originally Posted by: jdi000 Shawn I am not trying to be smart here, but I don't see these print issues with line weights in windows. Will check. Doing some trial and error settings now with layout setup, PDF setup, page setup, display setup, draw setup. Was there one I missed? It'd be nice if ViaCAD Pro 6 B831 defaulted to something usable. So far, one trick is to go to Page Layout while the drawing is first fresh on the screen to make sure that it fits the page size properly. Without doing that, all bets are off of getting any quality from printing. Now trying the three different pen weights to see any difference. Turning weights off makes drawing on an "ARCH C" size page tolerable. Ok. ViaCAD (Pro)'s Model to Sheet display is simply the Page Layout thumbnail preview blown up to full screen size. The (OpenGL?) preview drawing language and the PDF drawing language are not the same accuracy when you zoom in. Even using a different PDF generator seems to treat ViaCAD's drawing with slight differences. If ViaCAD 2D/3D can print at least as good as ViaCAD Pro, I'd say that is pretty good still for the money paid (under $99?) to do ARCH C/D/E page printing. By the way, I'm using Adobe Acrobat 5's PDF and PDF995 to make PDF's. Acrobat 5 does only letter and legal size paper while PDF995 does everything else. I have not tried CutePDF. I hear it does ARCH C/D/E sizes, too. I included a PDF from ViaCAD Pro 6 B831 using PDF995. It looks fine with Acrobat Reader 9.0.0. File Attachment(s): ViaCAD_Pro_housing.pdf (462kb) downloaded 0 time(s). You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
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Tim Olson		#14 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:34:26 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC) Posts: 5,447 Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 353 post(s)		Originally Posted by: jfc1068 When will someone please pay attention? Drawing lines do not equate to printed line widths. Tim, I can't undertstand how you can say nothing is wrong? See attached. I'm not seeing a problem with printing. We do max out the thickness of a printed line around 1/2 inch. Since you are attaching a copy of the screen, maybe what you are looking for are different ways to display line weights? (note below only impacts display, line weights are always printed to your specified model weight) In the ViaCAD V6 products check out the Preferences : Display dialog box where there is a drop down to control how model pen weights are displayed (not printed). Display As Printed Displays the line weight at the thickness it is printed which is also the same scale as all your other lengths. If you zoom up on your line font, it will eventually fill the screen. Display View Scaled Displays the line weight at a scale related to the screen. No mater how much you zoom in/out, the line weight will be the same. (If you put a ruler on the screen, it would measure the line weight specified) Display Weights Off All model based weights are displayed as 1 pixel thick. Note the above only apply to model based line weights. Pixel based line weights always display in pixel measurements. Tim
		Tim Olson IMSI Design/Encore


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ShawnDriscoll		#15 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:15:43 AM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Joined: 8/22/2009(UTC) Posts: 27		I was reading the manual. The book is actually written quite well. And found this: Displayed as Printed - Pen weights are displayed to the screen with the same weight you would get if you printed. If you measured the distance of the line weight with the Verify tool, it would measure the weight in model space coordinates. Zooming on pen weights in this mode can fill the screen with thick lines. I'm on Chapter 10 now. It's a page-turner and is not putting me to sleep yet. I'm curious how it ends.
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jfc1068		#16 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:44:17 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member Joined: 7/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 68		Originally Posted by: Tim Olson I'm not seeing a problem with printing. We do max out the thickness of a printed line around 1/2 inch. Since you are attaching a copy of the screen, maybe what you are looking for are different ways to display line weights? (note below only impacts display, line weights are always printed to your specified model weight) In the ViaCAD V6 products check out the Preferences : Display dialog box where there is a drop down to control how model pen weights are displayed (not printed). Display As Printed Displays the line weight at the thickness it is printed which is also the same scale as all your other lengths. If you zoom up on your line font, it will eventually fill the screen. Display View Scaled Displays the line weight at a scale related to the screen. No mater how much you zoom in/out, the line weight will be the same. (If you put a ruler on the screen, it would measure the line weight specified) Display Weights Off All model based weights are displayed as 1 pixel thick. Note the above only apply to model based line weights. Pixel based line weights always display in pixel measurements. Tim Are you refering to the resolution pull-down?


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jfc1068		#17 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:49:28 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member Joined: 7/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 68		I just realized I do not see the same dialog box that jdi000 is seeing. jfc1068 attached the following image(s): ScreenHunter_.jpg (33kb) downloaded 0 time(s). You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.


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ShawnDriscoll		#18 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:26:34 PM(UTC)
Rank: Junior Member Joined: 8/22/2009(UTC) Posts: 27		Originally Posted by: jfc1068 I just realized I do not see the same dialog box that jdi000 is seeing. You may have your Pen Weight set to Pixel size. Change it to .005 inches or something similar. Or you're not using the Pro version.
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jfc1068		#19 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 5:08:26 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member Joined: 7/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 68		Originally Posted by: ShawnDriscoll Or you're not using the Pro version. Unless here is something that I am missing I would have to guess I am not using the pro version.


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jfc1068		#20 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 8:17:47 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member Joined: 7/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 68		I have now found out the answer to why I don't see what jdi000 does. I am using build 786, the latest. Tim was telling me to use options that are NOT available in this build. Apparently it is part of build 831, which is in beta test.


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