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Campaign for Quality ! (#4591)
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/26/2007(UTC) Posts: 2,156
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
I want top start a campaign for quality - I want us to stop expanding the toolbase and the number of bloody software versions there are - (currently a record S I X from a single codestream). - and get focused solely on Q U A L I T Y ! Come on - it's time ! V9 should focus on 64 bit for Mac and PC, rationalisation, optimations and workflow fixes. Developers - that means you seriously need to SIT DOWN WITH PEOPLE WHO USE THIS SOFTWARE. If Punch spend as much energy polishing their software as they did spamming - we'd all have a more positive CADding experience. Yes, Jol is annoyed - coming back to this software after several month away - it strikes me as exceedingly arrogant of Punch to push all these variants over spending time making the using experience better. Yesterday for me was entirely LOST to problems and crashes - it's not fair !
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/26/2007(UTC) Posts: 2,156
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Quality is the 'Killer Feature' Come on - who agrees with Jol - please speak up !!
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/16/2007(UTC) Posts: 602
Thanks: 156 times Was thanked: 150 time(s) in 103 post(s)
Hi Jol,
I feel your pain, I must be in the minority of users that have to submit 2D drawings for machinists, and also for quotations. I have had problems with Model-to-Sheet since the Cobalt era. The workaround, if anyone can believe this, is to Export to CU or Shark Version 2, yes, Version 2 has less problems for me than Version 8. I also Export 2D models to AutoCAD LT98 for dimensioning and printing. I am on subscription for Inventor, and also use SharkFX 8 1016 on the PC, but the older programs get the task done with fewer headaches and less time. Model-to-Sheet has slightly changed over the years, but improvement is quistionable.
I am all for improvements, but fix what needs fixing first. I would much rather have 64 bit, than Push-Pull. I would rather have less crashes and and a top performing Model-to-Sheet than the Gripper.
I am sure that someone must or should notice that the same problems are posted over and over, year after year, and all we get to look forward to is something like a new and improved "Touchscreen Gripper with optional Skins" that we can purchase from the Punch Store or some other "feature" that drains the real efforts to improve the products. I would also like a liter of Glenfidich with every upgrade or purchase to help smooth over the new "Improvements and Features".
Larry
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Model to Sheet CU 2.0 8 years ago.jpg
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Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/26/2007(UTC) Posts: 2,156
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Yep - It must surely be time to CONSOLIDATE. The product is truly great - full of awesome features But I beg - please don't add any more features. Please please please walk a mile with some serious real-life users and smooth their stoney way !!
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/18/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,252
Location: Paris & Frankfurt
Thanks: 217 times Was thanked: 164 time(s) in 101 post(s)
I agree with Jol ! Quality is the real priority. I agree with Larry ! Even more radical : I Miss Ashlar Vellum 2.7 for 2D work. That was 17 years ago... Shark + 64 bits + Model to Sheet upgrade + Bug solving = The best design software ! Thanks, Tim...
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/16/2007(UTC) Posts: 602
Thanks: 156 times Was thanked: 150 time(s) in 103 post(s)
Hi Jlm,
I can't really say that I miss Vellum 2.7, because I still use it, but not too often. There does come a time when you do have to move forward.
Larry
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Vellum 2.7.jpg
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Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/18/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,252
Location: Paris & Frankfurt
Thanks: 217 times Was thanked: 164 time(s) in 101 post(s)
Originally Posted by: L. Banasky Hi Jlm, I can't really say that I miss Vellum 2.7, because I still use it... Larry
Thanks Larry, I'm happy to see it still alive...
Tim, can you remake Jurassic Park ?
Please !
Rank: Member
Joined: 11/16/2010(UTC) Posts: 57
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Looks like i am another dinosaur ... From time to time i am still using Draftboard Pocket. Finding Viacad/Shark on the internet was the result of a small research on the internet under the title "how did Vellum/Draftboard develop ?" Roland
Rank: Junior Member
Joined: 6/19/2011(UTC) Posts: 3
I totally agree; I'm using Viacad 7 Pro; which is basically a promising piece of software with loads of bugs: Punch is actually SELLING beta software! Please put some effort in straightening out bugs, it could be such a nice tool.
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/16/2007(UTC) Posts: 602
Thanks: 156 times Was thanked: 150 time(s) in 103 post(s)
Hi Jlm,
Quote:
"Shark + 64 bits + Model to Sheet upgrade + Bug solving = The best design software !"
The one more item that I would add to your list is the Tool Sets from Vectorworks. I have Vectorworks, and really only use it for the parametric tools, shafts, gears, screws etc. and export as .sat.
Larry
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Vectorworks Tool Sets.JPG
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Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 3/14/2007(UTC) Posts: 757
Quote: Hi Jlm, Quote: "Shark + 64 bits + Model to Sheet upgrade + Bug solving = The best design software !"
I have already some time ago launched an alarm on the current state of Shark and many bugs.
I believe that following the development team, will have no other choice, clean up the numerous software bugs.
[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]The most important for me to make in this software is: reliability[/SIZE][/COLOR]
it's been 7 years since this nucleus is sick of the same bugs, it is time to bring to the hospital for a transplant or a change in his blood ...
This is urgent, not to say intolerable!
Antoine
Rank: Junior Member
Joined: 8/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 14
I fully support Jol's Campaign for Quality. Working in the enterprise software business I am aware of all the challanges associated with stable, reliable but also innovative products. Trying to provide leading edge technology always involves the painful but necessary task of Quality Assurance. Nevertheless - there is a point in time when less is more! So please focus on finalizing a great software (and on getting rid of "old" annoying bugs) I still appreciate working with Shark FX (V8) and would like to continue - but as already said: I'm looking for a stable, reliable major release and no longer betas... Cheers Wolfgang
Rank: Member
Joined: 7/9/2007(UTC)
Posts: 35
...rarely used Shark FX 7 last 20 month, because I switched job and switched to SolidWorks. I love things that work like it's supposed to. The easy way of assembling numerous parts in SolidWorks. And the power of the Feature tree and the tidy uncluttered way you can edit different sketches. In contrast, in a complex Shark designs I always get a lot of curves that I have to sort into layers to try to keep things tidy, but it ends up so messy. I have never even thought about layers in SW. The Shark team really should take a closer look at SW and open their eyes. Maybe I will upgrade to FX9 or 10 in a year or two.
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/20/2007(UTC)
Posts: 302
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Originally Posted by: ToreT ...rarely used Shark FX 7 last 20 month, because I switched job and switched to SolidWorks. I love things that work like it's supposed to. The easy way of assembling numerous parts in SolidWorks. And the power of the Feature tree and the tidy uncluttered way you can edit different sketches. In contrast, in a complex Shark designs I always get a lot of curves that I have to sort into layers to try to keep things tidy, but it ends up so messy. I have never even thought about layers in SW.
For me it was allways the other way round. :)
I feel directed and restricted with the sketch->object->assembly approach of traditional software like ProE,SW,CATIA etc.
It may be better to have everything clean and parametric. But you are really slow with that.
With the feature tree you are perfectly right! That is something Shark can learn from SW. It unleashes the power of parametric modeling. And its usable and fast...
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/19/2007(UTC) Posts: 124
I fully support Jol's desire and many of us have been requesting stability and bug reduction over features for years. Unfortunately for Punch or Encore (I can no longer keep track of who does what) their competition is not standing still. While I still use Shark on occasions, it is less and less and only for very specific modeling tasks I know I can get done quickly. Other software titles get all the heavy lifting now. Yes, everyone above is correct with their own list of what does not work the way it should work especially after all these years for me it is model to sheet, faulty perspective, non-sticky dimension styles and general instability to name a few. I think at this point I will probably exercise the strongest vote I have and not upgrade when Shark v9 is released. I hope things change for the better but this drum has been beaten many times in the past. Gary
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 386
Thanks: 6 times Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
I agree with Jol. Stability, reliability are very important qualities that need to be addressed for Shark to move forward successfully. I don't know all of the issues, but large files have big stability issues. I can only hope that a 64 bit Mac version will improve stability. I'm not sure that a History Tree is needed. But always having access to parametric features is necessary. It seems that the UI has become a little dated in respect to the use of layers in 3D. Layers are relative to 2D drawing (akin to paper sheets), and so are useful in that context, but not 3D. In 3D objects should be treated separately, listing all features summarily, with the ability to refine and modify specific properties of each feature. Imagine clicking on an object and having a circle (or some shape) expand from that object that would in-circle the extents of the object to be modified, and then features descriptions (icon or text, or both) would be defined with callouts to each specific feature. In this way there would be more screen-estate to view parts close up. Is this just my coffee talking? So, I think there needs to be a more than just a refinement process. You can get an idea of what I am talking about from the free version of Autocad Inventor Fusion for Mac. Although it is not the best UI for a CAD software, it has a simple, yet powerful UI. I've just used it to check that a client could utilize surfacing work done with SharkFX and some other CAD App.
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 5/23/2012(UTC)
Posts: 274
Thanks: 13 times Was thanked: 13 time(s) in 10 post(s)
Buggiest software I've ever worked with. You can't even quit the app, you always have to force quit. That can't be that hard to fix, as it is reproducible. I agree, it's more like beta software.
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 6/28/2008(UTC) Posts: 648
Here's a problem I'm battling with at the moment.
To see it best, set the Static Shade to Flat under View > Display Options or use the Surface Analysis tools if you have them.
Take the attached file and export it as a STEP or IGES file and when you import it back in, there is a large deterioration in the centre patch blend which is impossible to correct. This makes any kind of export pointless, if you need to retain quality. Even a SAT file doesn't look quite the same when imported back in
The problem seems to occur when analytics are converted to nurbs at export time or when solids are changed into surfaces etc.
The upshot is that you have to be extremely careful as to what you can export and have confidence that it will retain it's original form.
Martin.
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Setback.vcp
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Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 6/15/2007(UTC) Posts: 398
Thanks: 1 times Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 4 post(s)
Strange that there is not any reply from development team Luis G.
Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 5/23/2012(UTC)
Posts: 274
Thanks: 13 times Was thanked: 13 time(s) in 10 post(s)
What answer do you expect? They know it of course, but probably being told by the management to focus on new features or just don't know how to solve the issues. If it was easy, they would have fixed it. But an answers would be wise from a PR point of view.
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