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epicycloid  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, August 2, 2023 3:47:12 PM(UTC)
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Hi -- I am relatively new to ViaCAD, finally giving up on Ashlar's products after more than 30 years. I bought a license to ViaCAD 2D/3D v14 to "dip my toes in the water" and it seems pretty stable using MacOS Ventura (13.4.1) running on a MacBook Pro / M2 Pro silicon.

My issues all seem to be related to trying to use VC with an external / second monitor connected.

I have read the old thread on External Monitor Issues, but none of the suggestions seem to be applicable on v14 running on Apple silicon.

Just some of the issues I'm seeing in my experiments and tests...

– Tools on pop-out sub-palettes can't be selected. In order to use any sub-palette tools, the entire palette has to be torn off.

– Setting / changing either the MacBook screen or the external monitor as the main display doesn't seem to alter the behavior in predictable ways to me.

– If I make the external monitor the main display, and move it above the laptop screen, the pop-out sub-palettes sort of work.

– But if I try to use that arrangement, when I quit, palettes and windows all forget their positions, even if "Save Dialog / Palette Positions" is clicked in Preferences.

Can anybody provide any guidance to make this more useable with a larger / external monitor?

Thanks,

Edited by user Wednesday, August 2, 2023 3:49:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
24c  
#2 Posted : Thursday, August 3, 2023 7:14:06 AM(UTC)
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Hi Jon,

I'm using a MacBook M1 Max using macOS 14.3.1c, with an external display, a MateView 28.1"

My MateView is the "Main Display", the MacBook the "Extended Display" in System Settings > Displays
In the "Arrange" tab I have the MateView and MacBook aligned at their bottom edges, with the Menu bar on the MateView, as I am treating this as an external display.


The first time you open SharkCAD, you will get the main drawing window about a third down, and other odd stuff happening.
Resize the windows, and move to your desired position, then make a simple drawing, and Quit after saving first.
When you reopen SharkCAD you should be almost see what you want, if not just re-arrange again, do something and hopefully when you Quit it will remember the same layout.

I did have a very buggy phase prior to this that made the whole software annoying and useless, but I'm using build 1635 from the Beta programme now, and this Beta, my system settings and previous iterations have made things easier

All the best
Mike
PS There are some bugs if you have two windows opening, the drawing gets hidden by the other window being on top, plus you can get toolbars and palettes on the screen when you switch apps, that'll need another mouse click to get rid of, especially if using Stage Manager.

PPS Jeepers, I used Ashlar Vellum in the 90's :o

Edited by user Friday, August 4, 2023 4:36:51 AM(UTC)  | Reason: added PPS

macOS 14.3.1 (Sonoma) - MacBook M1 Max 64GB 2TB SSD & external display - SharkCAD Pro v14.1.0 build 1654
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epicycloid on 8/4/2023(UTC)
MPSchmied  
#3 Posted : Friday, August 4, 2023 2:11:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: epicycloid Go to Quoted Post
giving up on Ashlar's products after more than 30 years.
The difference between ViaCAD and Ashlar's products is virtually zero. My guess is that it's the same code stream, but it is definitely a very similar code stream.

Edited by user Friday, August 4, 2023 8:17:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

OS: Windows 10 | CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700 | RAM: 32 GB | Graphic: AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 | Shark FX 9 Build 1162 | Unit: mm
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epicycloid on 8/4/2023(UTC)
epicycloid  
#4 Posted : Friday, August 4, 2023 3:43:33 PM(UTC)
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@24c -- Thank you very much Mike for your setup details... I am experimenting now and will report back, or ask for further clarifications!

@MPSchmied -- I chose ViaCAD for that very reason, that it is so similar, hence an easier learning curve.

That said, Tim Olson has continued developing the ViaCAD / Punch / Shark software, especially Mac versions, whereas it looks like Robert Bou / Ashlar have died on the vine (the war in Ukraine, where the bulk of Ashlar's development is, notwithstanding).

Coincidentally Tim Olson has written a few interesting historical posts that help explain the similarities and overlap, and Tim's industry history...


History of ViaCad and Shark



Just Curious.....



The story behind Viacad


...and externally too...

ViaCad history ?


As an aside, the demise of Ashlar saddens me personally. I had meetings early on with Martin Newell and Dan Fitzpatrick when the "drafting assistant" was being first developed (1988). I knew then that their approach would change the future of CAD. I am certainly glad Tim is still carrying that torch.

Cheers,
      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
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MPSchmied on 8/5/2023(UTC)
epicycloid  
#5 Posted : Friday, August 4, 2023 4:12:34 PM(UTC)
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After a bit of testing... I set my external monitor as the main display, and the laptop screen / built-in display as the "extended display".

1. If I arrange my screens flush at the bottom, the "Prompt Window", the immoveable banner normally at the top of the screen, comes up even with the top of the smaller laptop screen, in the horizontal center of my external screen, and can't be moved. (I can't attach a screenshot... maybe I'm too new as a user of the forum?)

2. If I make the tops of the two screens flush, the "Prompt Window" is in a useable position at the top of the screen, but the initial window (new or opening a saved document), opens halfway down the screen.

3. The pop-out tool palettes don't allow any tool selection along them, unless they are torn off and floating.

Any other ideas?

Cheers,

Edited by user Friday, August 4, 2023 4:16:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Was able to add screenshot at end.

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      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
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jlm on 8/5/2023(UTC)
24c  
#6 Posted : Saturday, August 5, 2023 5:44:33 PM(UTC)
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@epicycloid

to eliminate 2, move the initial window up to the top of the screen, resize it to whatever size you want. Save this drawing, and when you quit SharkCAD and re-open, it should be at the top as you last left it.
SharkCAD remembers your choices in its preferences.

re 3, I had the same problem, it was documented in the Beta section, and I honesty can't remember when it was fixed. If you ask Tim, he will give you access to the Beta section of this forum, and/or you might be able to get access to a later beta build too.
The links that were here before I can't seem to find.

Mike

PS I moved my Tool palettes and others like Concept Explorer to the RH side of my screen, as I think Stage Manager (on the left of screen) pushes the tool palette to the right after you move it fully left.
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epicycloid on 8/7/2023(UTC)
MPSchmied  
#7 Posted : Sunday, August 6, 2023 7:13:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 24c Go to Quoted Post
as I think Stage Manager (on the left of screen) pushes the tool palette
In Windows 10, I've disabled all these unnecessary pop-ups using the 7+ Taskbar Tweaker. The taskbar always stays in the background and is accessible only through a keyboard shortcut. Thankfully, Mac isn't the only OS in the world.
OS: Windows 10 | CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700 | RAM: 32 GB | Graphic: AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 | Shark FX 9 Build 1162 | Unit: mm
epicycloid  
#8 Posted : Monday, August 7, 2023 12:23:54 PM(UTC)
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@24c -- Thanks again Mike for the suggestions, and confirming the WIP / beta's help with some of these issues.

I found the link for the beta and submitted a request. Hopefully gaining access to 1635 will clear up most of the issues.

Based on other posts and "breadcrumbs" I have Stage Manager and Mission Control turned off.

I have the main app mostly working now (waiting on the WIP / beta access to tweak further), but the other weird one is that every "new" document, opens further down at the bottom of my external monitor. I move it up to work on it, and save, etc. But why next time I create a "new" drawing, the title bar for the window is way down at the bottom of the screen... image attached.

Likewise, the tool palette locations are not remembered.

I am hopeful that the WIP / beta builds will have fixed a few of these issues.



@MPSchmied -- I suspect many of us, like me, use both Windows and MacOS. I have used both for decades. They each have their respective issues that require workarounds, and often deep familiarity with the respective OS. Windows isn't an option in this case, I need to run ViaCAD on MacOS. Likewise MacOS isn't an option in other things I have to do. And in some other cases, running an OS in a VM on a different host OS is required.

Thankfully for all of us, regardless of our individual needs and requirements, someone like Tim Olson has made the effort to keep the codebase running on both Windows and MacOS.

Cheers,

Edited by user Monday, August 7, 2023 12:28:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Trying to add 3rd screenshot...

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      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
epicycloid  
#9 Posted : Monday, August 7, 2023 12:30:59 PM(UTC)
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...seems I can "upload" but it doesn't actually attach a 3rd screenshot... trying again to show more explicitly how a new document opens at the bottom.

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      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
24c  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 8, 2023 1:34:19 AM(UTC)
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@epicycloid aka Jon

I'm not sure what is causing your new drawing to drop down the screen on your main display.
I don't get this, as you can see with my screenshots.
I'm using Stage manager because it suits my workflow, and saves dropping down to the Dock at the bottom of the screen

Mike

PS @ MSchmied, I use any OS that fits my needs, but have used VMs on my Macs to work around some software requirements. Plus, I do have a standalone Windows laptop and Linux computers for other stuff I mess with, and they all have merits, so "it's horses for courses" :)
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MPSchmied on 8/8/2023(UTC), epicycloid on 8/21/2023(UTC)
epicycloid  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, August 9, 2023 12:22:38 PM(UTC)
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@24c -- Thanks again Mike.

I am waiting on WIP access. No word yet on that.

In the meantime, I am re-arranging my screens to mimic your configuration, and doing more testing. There was a post (linked in my first post above) 4 years ago by Tim that hinted at X&Y values, and had a screenshot of his arrangement (that I duplicated), but now trying yours to see if that helps.

After those tests, I'll reconsider Stage Manager, etc. Just have to get the basics working before I start adding more variables.

Cheers,



PS - Is there some trick to getting this forum to "notify" of a post / activity? I have checked the option, but I am not getting any emails.
      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
epicycloid  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, August 9, 2023 3:27:58 PM(UTC)
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I sent an email to Punch support and they got back to me very quickly, with a link to the WIP build 1635 (aka 14.1.0).

I installed that, and I am still seeing the same behaviors I had before.

I have re-arranged my displays per 24c's suggestion, but that didn't seem to change anything before or after the WIP install.

I just sent the following to support...

Quote:
The 1635 WIP build / 14.1.0 didn’t solve my issues…

1. When I launch ViaCAD the new document window always opens with it’s title bar at the bottom of the screen, just on top of the Dock, and the various tool pop-out palettes are scattered.

2. When I re-arrange all of the palettes and floating tools, make edits to a drawing, save, explicitly save dialog and palette positions, and then quit, most of those settings are lost. The Concept Explorer and Inspector remember their locations, but all others shift lower on the screen every time.

3. The pop-out tool sub-palettes do not allow selecting any tools along the ribbon. The only way to select a sub-tool is to tear off the palette and then it is useable.

Attached are a couple screen shots illustrating these behaviors. Also attached is a screen shot of my current display arrangement, based on forum suggestions.

Any help or hints would be appreciated.


If anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears.

Thanks,
File Attachment(s):
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      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
24c  
#13 Posted : Thursday, August 10, 2023 6:27:06 AM(UTC)
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@epicycloid "If anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears"


Have you tried resetting ViaCAD>Settings aka Preferences to "Factory All" with your display plugged in. If you don't use metric, it'll revert to inches, but my working layout and toolbar wasn't affected. I was using Small Palette Icons, and in Factory All they are larger, but they work fine.

Mike


macOS 14.3.1 (Sonoma) - MacBook M1 Max 64GB 2TB SSD & external display - SharkCAD Pro v14.1.0 build 1654
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epicycloid on 8/21/2023(UTC)
epicycloid  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, August 16, 2023 6:40:48 PM(UTC)
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@24c / Mike -- Thanks again for that tip.

Because I haven't been using ViaCAD for too long, most of my configuration changes have been minor. Your suggestion to "Factory All" did seem to improve some of the quirks a bit. But I've also learned a lot in the last couple days...

I spent a couple days off and on testing various configurations, basically 16 permutations for the various positions of the main display and the extended display. Launching, re-arranging, saving, quitting, re-launching... repeat.

My two important learnings were:

1. The behavior (er, behaviour for you ;-) is different depending on whether I open a previously saved / configured document vs. launching the app from the Dock. If I open a previously saved document, it retains most of the settings, like window size, palette locations and sizes, and any tool sub-palettes. So I have kind of made some "templates" and saved them, for the different tasks I need (e.g. projects in different units, etc.). Then I just double-click the saved "template" to launch and get back to working. That alone has gotten me to 90% functioning now.

2. Of the 16 permutations I tested, the only versions where the pop-out tool sub-palettes worked (without having to tear them off), was when I separated the MacOS menu bar on one display, and the MacOS Dock on the other display, above and below. Basically all four permutations I tried that were variations on that theme worked. But they each had pros and cons associated with them. E.g. if the Menu was on the smaller of the two displays, that dictated the width of the Prompt / Data Input "ribbon".

I am currently using a configuration with my larger external display above the smaller laptop display. You said you got yours working with both displays flush at the bottom. That hasn't worked for me so far. No telling why not though. Oddly, if I launch the app from the Dock, the "ribbon" is only as wide as the smaller laptop display. But if I launch a previously saved document, the "ribbon" opens up to the full width of the external display.

I'm making progress towards getting productive, even if it feels as though I'm hobbling along slowly.

Waiting now for an email and WIP link for 1638, which fixes an issue I was preparing to report on... the Feet / Inch issue.

Cheers,



      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
24c  
#15 Posted : Thursday, August 17, 2023 1:51:19 AM(UTC)
24c

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@epicycloid / Jon

I'm at a loss to understand why it's not working for you like me, so I think it must be something that is different in our respective MacBook systems.
I've dropped some Desktop and Dock screenshots to help you

All the best
Mike

Edited by user Thursday, August 17, 2023 1:52:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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epicycloid on 8/21/2023(UTC)
epicycloid  
#16 Posted : Monday, August 21, 2023 10:41:03 AM(UTC)
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@24c / Mike -- Thank you Mike! Your two screenshots provided the missing breadcrumbs and solved my problem!

I had not been using Mission Control or Stage Manager, based on earlier forum posts suggesting they both needed to be turned off in order for ViaCAD to play well with external monitors. So I didn't have either enabled or set up.

But following your settings, based on your two screen shots, that unlocked the key, which turns out *seems* to have been, "Displays have separate Spaces" enabled. That is the setting that turns on a Dock on each of the displays. Voilà!

With "Displays have separate Spaces" enabled, with or without Mission Control optionally enabled, seems to have solved the issue. Most arrangements of my two displays seems to work now, and I have reverted to setting my external display to the left, and laptop display on the right, with bottoms of both displays flush, which mimics how they physically sit on my desk.

I can't thank you enough for persevering and helping me navigate through this challenge!

Cheers,





      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
24c  
#17 Posted : Monday, August 21, 2023 11:22:02 AM(UTC)
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Hi Jon,

Really glad you've got to the end of it for now, there are some glitches, but the software is now usable for me, and like you I went through a hair pulling phase before I worked around it.
Obviously I'm not sure it was documented well enough in my posts, but thankfully your questions, have given a solution to others again.

All the best, happy doodling
Mike

Edited by user Monday, August 21, 2023 11:22:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: spellcheck

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epicycloid on 8/21/2023(UTC)
epicycloid  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, August 22, 2023 10:58:11 AM(UTC)
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Hi Mike -- Sent you a PM on a slightly different topic... not sure if you saw it?

Thanks again for all the help!

      --Jon

SharkCAD Pro – V14 (aka 14.1.0 = WIP 1641)
16" MacBook Pro – Apple Silicon M2 Pro – MacOS Ventura 13.4.1
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