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Art Smith  
#1 Posted : Sunday, March 6, 2016 12:45:56 PM(UTC)
Art Smith

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Shark FX's "Three Tangent Curve" solution for three circles is the "inner" solution. is there any way to select/force the "outer" solution??

Art
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mitchb  
#2 Posted : Sunday, March 6, 2016 3:57:15 PM(UTC)
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There are two ways to do that:

1. Use the Three Point Circle tool and select the tangent points. If you don't get the tangent points exactly then select the circle with the "Deep Select" tool and move the intersect points as needed.

2. Select the "Three Tangent Circle" with the "Deep Select" tool and move the tangent point to the tangent point on the other side.

Mitch
solardrifter  
#3 Posted : Sunday, March 6, 2016 4:35:37 PM(UTC)
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Hi Art,

for me it works fine when I try to select the tangent items in area of the expected tangent point.
Please see picture.

Regards
George
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Art Smith  
#4 Posted : Sunday, March 6, 2016 4:47:54 PM(UTC)
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Mitch-

thanks for your post! I'm not sure how to implement your suggestions. the tangent points are the "unknown" and the "three tangent circle" just a means to an end. the tangent points hopefully enable "gapless" arcs to be constructed for multiple lofting operations and eventually joining of a number of lofted surfaces...... the lofting tool seems to struggle with multiple concave closed curves. "cut & paste" looks like the only remaining option.

Art
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Edited by user Sunday, March 6, 2016 4:49:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Art Smith  
#5 Posted : Sunday, March 6, 2016 4:55:30 PM(UTC)
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George-

THANKS!! clicking very close to the expected tangent points works.

Art
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Art Smith  
#6 Posted : Sunday, March 6, 2016 6:54:16 PM(UTC)
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are others able to select the "outer solution" when the left and right curves are Control Point Splines?? NO amount of leading the witness will now yield the outer solution working with a clean piece of paper............. clearly the problem isn't the descriptive geometry!

Art
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Art Smith  
#7 Posted : Monday, March 7, 2016 12:19:30 PM(UTC)
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more observations for the communities detectives:

inner pair of control point splines-
1.) after selecting the three tangent circle tool and moving the cursor over the center circle, the "on" symbol appears AND can be moved around the complete circumference of the circle with the cursor.
2.) after selecting the tangent point for the center circle (ie: it's known) and moving the cursor over the control point spline on the right (ie: the original), the "on" symbol appears at approximately the 4 o'clock location and CAN NOT be moved (ie: the "on" symbol will not follow the cursor around the perimeter of the control point spline).
3.) after selecting the tangent point for the center circle (ie: it's known) and the control point spline on the right and moving the cursor over the control point spline on the left (ie: the copy via Polar Duplicate), the "on" symbol appears at approximately the 10 o'clock location (ie: the expected location given the 4 o'clock experience with the original) and CAN NOT be moved (ie: the "on" symbol will not follow the cursor around the perimeter of the control point spline).
4.) selecting a point on the control point spline on the left yields the unwanted "inner solution" circle.

outer pair of control point splines-
1.) after selecting the three tangent circle tool and moving the cursor over the center circle, the "on" symbol appears AND can be moved around the complete circumference of the circle with the cursor.
2.) after selecting the tangent point for the center circle (ie: it's known) and moving the cursor over the control point spline on the left (ie: the original), the "on" symbol appears at approximately the 10 o'clock location and CAN NOT be moved (ie: the "on" symbol will not follow the cursor around the perimeter of the control point spline).
3.) after selecting the tangent point for the center circle (ie: it's known) and the control point spline on the left and moving the cursor over the control point spline on the right (ie: the copy via Polar Duplicate), the "on" symbol appears at the 3 o'clock location and CAN NOT be moved (ie: the "on" symbol will not follow the cursor around the perimeter of the control point spline) on the upper half of the control point spline BUT will follow the cursor on the bottom half of the control point spline.
4.) selecting a point on the control point spline on the right yields the unwanted "inner solution" circle.

Art
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Art Smith  
#8 Posted : Monday, March 7, 2016 9:50:55 PM(UTC)
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with no progress, it's time to ask the obvious question about the elephant in the corner:

is the "Three Tangent Circle" tool designed to work with one, two, or three control point splines??

given the limited insight in the User's Guide (below), I've assumed the answer to be yes to date. but because of the continuing problems with an elementary descriptive geometry problem, it seem like a good thing to explicitly confirm the validity of the assumption.

Three Tangent Circle
The Three Tangent Circle tool creates a circle tangent to three curves.
Using the Three Tangent Circle tool
1 Click the first curve.
2 Click the second curve.
3 Click the third curve.


Art
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Art Smith  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, March 8, 2016 7:49:36 AM(UTC)
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it occurred to me last night that perhaps I'm asking the wrong question; the classic problem of cause & effect. what controls, enables, or influences the appearance of the "on" symbol over curves?? the idea being if the Three Tangent Circle can't be provided the intended information, maybe that's the problem............ see attached image. the "on" symbol follows the cursor over the complete extent of both control point splines that result from projecting circles onto the curved surface (tested with the Line tool)! as reported in a previous post, the "on" symbol does NOT follow the cursor over either control point splines that result from projection of the previous control point splines.... the "direction" of all three curves on the flat surface is the same

Art
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Art Smith  
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:20:51 PM(UTC)
Art Smith

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surely someone that works at PunchCAD knows with certainty if the Three Tangent Circle tool is designed to work with one, two, or three "splines"...... AND what enables, controls, or influences the display of the "on" symbol when the cursor is over a line or curve. the questions wouldn't be posted if Shark FX was operating consistent with user expectations!

Art
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Tim Olson  
#11 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2016 4:06:14 PM(UTC)
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Hi Art

The Three Tangent Curve works on any three curve types. The solution iterates from positions and derivatives initially seeded from the three pick locations. It could be you have a situation where it cannot find a solution. If you have something not solving, can you provide an example file with only three curves in it? No additional construction geometry would help me repeat the steps easier.

>>influences the display of the "on" symbol
Your LogiCursor Hit Radius controls when the On condition is identified. This is under Prefs: Snaps.

Tim

Edited by user Friday, March 11, 2016 4:06:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Art Smith  
#12 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2016 8:30:37 PM(UTC)
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Tim-

file attached

Art
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File Attachment(s):
three tangent circle fault isolation file.sfx (25kb) downloaded 10 time(s).

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Tim Olson  
#13 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2016 9:46:45 PM(UTC)
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This is now fixed in 1192. All four cases can now be found.

Click on the image to see animated gif for two cases.

Tim

Edited by user Saturday, March 12, 2016 1:48:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Tim Olson
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Art Smith  
#14 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2016 12:44:23 PM(UTC)
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Tim-

thanks! Current Version says I'm running Shark FX 9.0.9 Build 1185; No update is necessary. when will 1192 be available for use given SP2 1191 is now being Beta tested??

Art
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Tim Olson  
#15 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2016 12:59:57 PM(UTC)
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Hi Art

>>when will 1192 be available for use given SP2 1191 is now being Beta tested??

I'll upload 1192 tonight or early Sunday for you. There are only a couple of changes since 1191.

Tim

EDIT: I need to try 1192 for Sunday night.

Edited by user Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:16:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Tim Olson  
#16 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2016 11:15:19 AM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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In 1192 I updated LogiCursor to improve support of periodic splines. This should correct the "On" issue you are seeing. I also made some updates to the three tangent circle tool and pick locations.

Below is a link a short video showing the tool finding the four circles for your example file. Also attached is the SFX file with the four circles.

http://www.csi-concepts.com/Demo/videos/threeTangent.mp4



Tim

Edited by user Monday, March 14, 2016 11:16:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Tim Olson
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Antoine  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2016 3:31:55 AM(UTC)
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Excellent!

Thank you Tim.

Antoine
Art Smith  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2016 11:00:15 AM(UTC)
Art Smith

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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
In 1192 I updated LogiCursor to improve support of periodic splines. This should correct the "On" issue you are seeing. I also made some updates to the three tangent circle tool and pick locations.

Below is a link a short video showing the tool finding the four circles for your example file. Also attached is the SFX file with the four circles.

http://www.csi-concepts.com/Demo/videos/threeTangent.mp4


Tim



have the other three forum members that have downloaded the file in Tim's post been able to confirm operation of the Three Tangent Circle tool as depicted in the video with 1192? I can NOT (even using Tim's tangent points) leading me to suspect there may be "preferences" constraint(s) yet to be discovered. accordingly, if you've been able to confirm operation of the Three Tangent Circle tool using 1192, I would greatly appreciate if you could post your "preferences" setting to either correct my "preferences" or eliminate "preferences" as the cause of my continuing problems.

Art
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Tim Olson  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2016 11:09:26 AM(UTC)
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Art

What is your Snap Hit Radius set at? (Under prefs)

Tim

Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Art Smith  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:51:54 PM(UTC)
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Tim-

6

Art
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