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zumer  
#21 Posted : Friday, August 21, 2009 10:51:49 PM(UTC)
zumer

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Originally Posted by: NickB Go to Quoted Post


On a seperate note, has anybody got any experience with using a tablet and stylus, possibly combined with the bottom of the range Space Navigator, as I am looking for alternatives to a mouse that will have more natural ergonomics.


Not a tablet and stylus, but I've been looking for alternatives too. I think I'll give [URL="http://www.ergotouch.com/product.cfm?ProductID=5"]this[/URL] a try, because it doesn't need a platform, and might be easier than stroking a touchpad with a netbook balanced in my lap. This gadget seems to be doing the rounds. It's variously sold as ErgoTouch, PokerMouse (for online poker!), or WeraMouse, which seems to be a New Zealand company's name for an ergonomic angle.
ZeroLengthCurve  
#22 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2009 1:38:24 PM(UTC)
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Actually, i like two-handed operation. It WAS fun being mesmerized by the blue ring under the input knob. It kinda felt like... well, piloting. If i ever get more space on my desk in my room i might reinstall the files to get it running. But, this model i won't be carting around as i think i've weakened the wire a tad bit too much for my worries.

Back on two-handed drafting, i think if the mouse i use had more function buttons, programmed correctly, it could be a time saver. I 5-button mouse with preset drop-downs leading to most-often-used commands (session or user-history-based) might be interesting.
tmay  
#23 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2009 1:59:13 PM(UTC)
tmay

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Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 278

Originally Posted by: ZeroLengthCurve Go to Quoted Post
Actually, i like two-handed operation. It WAS fun being mesmerized by the blue ring under the input knob. It kinda felt like... well, piloting. If i ever get more space on my desk in my room i might reinstall the files to get it running. But, this model i won't be carting around as i think i've weakened the wire a tad bit too much for my worries.

Back on two-handed drafting, i think if the mouse i use had more function buttons, programmed correctly, it could be a time saver. I 5-button mouse with preset drop-downs leading to most-often-used commands (session or user-history-based) might be interesting.


Gestures is starting to become another UI choice. SW 2010 supports Gestures, and probably some others as well.
NickB  
#24 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2009 3:17:31 PM(UTC)
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There are [URL="http://macupdate.com/search.php?keywords=gesture&os=mac"]several[/URL] free and low cost ($5) apps for the Mac that will allow you to add gestures to the system, and probably an equal or greater number for windows. I haven't tested any of them, but the issue I see for Shark / ViaCad is that you still have to assign a keyboard shortcut to the item for the gesture interface to then activate the item. The debate then comes down to whether it is faster to press a key on the keyboard, or press a button on your mouse and then draw a gesture. Both require that you memorize something, but is muscle memory faster and easier than finger > keyboard > muscle memory ?

Back to my original question. Does anybody have any experience with ViaCad / Shark and using a [URL="http://www.wacom.com/productinfo/index.php"]tablet[/URL] as a mouse replacement.
Shark FX 9 build 1143
OS X 9.5
3.6 GHz Core i7, 8GB, GTX 760 2GB

matter.cc
ttrw  
#25 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2009 4:03:43 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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Nick, I've got a Wacom, but I have to admit that I've never tried using it with ViaCAD. Again, I also have to admit that I found it to be a bit of a gimmick personally. I know some folks do like them and get on with them, but like the Spacemouse, it wasn't for me.

I think Jol hit the nail on the head personally, by suggesting that VC and Shark would do far better if it had more improved bezier handling on its splines- like those in Pages or Illustrator, rather than attempting to get used to things like the Wacom. Just my opinion :)

Tom
NickB  
#26 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2009 5:01:43 PM(UTC)
NickB

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Tom,
I am loking at the Wacom, because I just had surgery on my shoulder, to releve a pinched nerve, now that that is better I am finding that the pinched nerve was masking an Repetetative Strain Injury (RSI) in my lower arm caused by twistting my arm to hold a mouse. A tablet / stylus would allow my arm to not be twisted and is much more natural as it does not force a position, hence my interest.

I have tried a "[URL="http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=086"]Natural[/URL]" ergo blob twisted mouse, but the thing weighs a pound or so, and is too large for my hand.
Shark FX 9 build 1143
OS X 9.5
3.6 GHz Core i7, 8GB, GTX 760 2GB

matter.cc
zumer  
#27 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2009 6:31:44 PM(UTC)
zumer

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I used to use a mouse from a company called A4Tech, they had four buttons, when the third and fourth buttons were pressed, they'd bring up what the company called "Lucky Jump" and "Net Jump". These were 14-button toolbars that could be assigned keyboard sequences, effectively lightweight scripting, either independent of the app in use, or associated with. The software was also usable with generic mice, but they were PS2 mice on Win98, and while I can get the interface, I can't get it to function on USB with Win XP. Being able to fire a keyboard sequence from one button was so useful.
ttrw  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:43:05 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Originally Posted by: NickB Go to Quoted Post
I just had surgery on my shoulder, to releve a pinched nerve, now that that is better I am finding that the pinched nerve was masking an Repetetative Strain Injury (RSI) in my lower arm caused by twistting my arm to hold a mouse. A tablet / stylus would allow my arm to not be twisted and is much more natural as it does not force a position, hence my interest.


Nick, I'm very sorry to hear about that. A couple of years back, when I started my degree, I developed a cold shoulder- the pain was like nothing I had experienced before, and I had to hold my arms above my head, as this was the only way to relieve the pain. I went to all kinds of wacky alternative therapies including a Mctimothy Chiropractor, who literally tapped my back with his fingers, and then charged me $100!!!

Actually what fixed it, after 4 months of extreme pain and discomfort, and hundreds of heavy duty pain killers doled out by my ignorant GP, was the good old NHS physiotherapist, who gave me 2 very basic and easy to do exercises, and the pain simply 'lifted' away!

I learnt much about "RSI" in this period too. So did my wife, who is now a qualified CIPD HR officer. She found that there is actually no such thing as RSI!! 'Repetitive Strain Injury' is actually caused by poor or bad ergonomic set up. For eg, a chair and a desk is just as important as the software that you use, and if you spend $1000+ on software, really you should spend just as much on furniture, and attention to setting that up properly- like top of the monitor at eye level, and proper amounts of table area, to help support wrists etc.

The problems comes where either employers, or individuals don't pay attention to these guidelines. Laptops for eg, are extremely bad for your posture- I'm typing on one now, while sitting in a "Chesterfield" type chair. I can feel the pain in my arm already, as there is no support for my arms, the monitor is also at knee level, so my head is looking down, and not moving much- producing even more strain. But we carry on doing it, because it is convenient.

I'm sorry to hear that you have had surgery, as you may have been able to avoid it. One guy who worked (he had to retire- at 38!) for the company my wife works for. He had surgery, after having a CAT scan, for minor lower back pain, and he's now permanently disabled, has lost his ability to walk, and this can, and will happen to the unfortunate ones, with and after surgery. Surgery does NOT have a 100% safety record. You were, according to my wife, very fortunate.

The bottom line is, get your ergonomics set up properly. Just having your monitor at the correct height makes a massive difference for you neck, arms and shoulders. A good chair will cost $1000++ but it's worth every penny, because days off work, also, as you already know, will cost you. Make sure that the chair can be fully adjusted, and don't get fooled by those kneeling back chairs either, they are rubbish! (They don't offer any arm or back support, so you end up sitting on them like a normal chair). Your desk also, should be fully height adjustable. My desk is made by IKEA, it's very good- but I wouldn't recommend IKEA's chairs at all. These are really badly made, and offer little adjustment.

I would recommend they above to everyone on this forum, who suffers the same problems. This site;

http://www.tropsoft.com/ergotimer/workstation.htm

has a very good workstation set up diagram, but my wife would also recommend a foot rest also in some conditions.
tmay  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:15:30 AM(UTC)
tmay

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 278

Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
Nick, I'm very sorry to hear about that. A couple of years back, when I started my degree, I developed a cold shoulder- the pain was like nothing I had experienced before, and I had to hold my arms above my head, as this was the only way to relieve the pain. I went to all kinds of wacky alternative therapies including a Mctimothy Chiropractor, who literally tapped my back with his fingers, and then charged me $100!!!

Actually what fixed it, after 4 months of extreme pain and discomfort, and hundreds of heavy duty pain killers doled out by my ignorant GP, was the good old NHS physiotherapist, who gave me 2 very basic and easy to do exercises, and the pain simply 'lifted' away!

I learnt much about "RSI" in this period too. So did my wife, who is now a qualified CIPD HR officer. She found that there is actually no such thing as RSI!! 'Repetitive Strain Injury' is actually caused by poor or bad ergonomic set up. For eg, a chair and a desk is just as important as the software that you use, and if you spend $1000+ on software, really you should spend just as much on furniture, and attention to setting that up properly- like top of the monitor at eye level, and proper amounts of table area, to help support wrists etc.

The problems comes where either employers, or individuals don't pay attention to these guidelines. Laptops for eg, are extremely bad for your posture- I'm typing on one now, while sitting in a "Chesterfield" type chair. I can feel the pain in my arm already, as there is no support for my arms, the monitor is also at knee level, so my head is looking down, and not moving much- producing even more strain. But we carry on doing it, because it is convenient.

I'm sorry to hear that you have had surgery, as you may have been able to avoid it. One guy who worked (he had to retire- at 38!) for the company my wife works for. He had surgery, after having a CAT scan, for minor lower back pain, and he's now permanently disabled, has lost his ability to walk, and this can, and will happen to the unfortunate ones, with and after surgery. Surgery does NOT have a 100% safety record. You were, according to my wife, very fortunate.

The bottom line is, get your ergonomics set up properly. Just having your monitor at the correct height makes a massive difference for you neck, arms and shoulders. A good chair will cost $1000++ but it's worth every penny, because days off work, also, as you already know, will cost you. Make sure that the chair can be fully adjusted, and don't get fooled by those kneeling back chairs either, they are rubbish! (They don't offer any arm or back support, so you end up sitting on them like a normal chair). Your desk also, should be fully height adjustable. My desk is made by IKEA, it's very good- but I wouldn't recommend IKEA's chairs at all. These are really badly made, and offer little adjustment.

I would recommend they above to everyone on this forum, who suffers the same problems. This site;

http://www.tropsoft.com/ergotimer/workstation.htm

has a very good workstation set up diagram, but my wife would also recommend a foot rest also in some conditions.


What do you think of the Herman Miller Aeron chair?

the other tom
jol  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:47:16 PM(UTC)
jol

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Just a suggestion .. and no offense ..

Should we start a topic on ergonomics and computers, in the lounge, perhaps ?

.. it's a fascinating subject and it'd be great if it's not hidden inside this thread - that way it'll make a great searchable resource for the future
ttrw  
#31 Posted : Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:28:17 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Wow, I was just about to start a fresh....when BANG! There it goes....!

Who moved it? Tim??

Good move Tim! :D
ZeroLengthCurve  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:26:18 AM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

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I'm starting to feel an interest in tablets. I feel like i want to put my thumb or thumb and two of my fingers down on one side of a tablet and then tap a pen and pivot, swing, swivel, or zoom in or out of a model.

(Gesture tapping into or out of or up or down a user-defined list of top-five-active layers would be nice, too, but it seems VC 2D/3D Trial's "preserve layer information" feature will be very useful for copying parts or features from a sister file into a current file.)

I haven't used my 3D mouse anymore because it's heavy and every time i upgrade if have to think about drivers for Linux AND windows, and maybe sometimes VC/VCP. Now, a tablet might be worth the drivers headache.

This would be useful when the model is HUGE. Imagine "holding down" one "edge of a drawing" and using the pen to "unfurl along to a point of interest". The useful part is when i have to draw long expanses of girder (for say 10 meters) in a heavily populated view.

If the tablet (and a corresponding pallet on VC/VCP/Shark screen space) could have an overlay for tapping into and out of layers, this could help to "temporarily declutter" a view for drawing/part creation/construction purposes while maintaining the view so one doesn't forget other features and end up drawing to the point of encroaching on "right of way".
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