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ttrw  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:33:21 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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Punch folk, have you seen this?;

http://www.architosh.com/news/2...rasolid_vectorworks.html

Won't this make VW's super-compatible with Shark and VC? Can only be a good thing eh?

TT
tmay  
#2 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:03:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
Punch folk, have you seen this?;

http://www.architosh.com/news/2...rasolid_vectorworks.html

Won't this make VW's super-compatible with Shark and VC? Can only be a good thing eh?

TT


There would still be a couple of options for VW to Shark. One would be to export SAT from VW and use existing Shark import translators. The other would be to export Parasolids from VW, but we would have to wait for Tim to update Shark and VC to the ACIS V19 kernel as I think that is the first version with a Parasolids/Solidworks import/export translator.

It is a big deal that VW has moved to Parasolids with the 2009 edition though I don't particularly see any huge advantage of Parasolids vs ACIS in this particular market, especially with some of the functionality that ACIS now offers.
Tim Olson  
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:02:58 AM(UTC)
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>>Won't this make VW's super-compatible with Shark and VC?

You would still need to export usng STEP. Parasolid native format is x_t and ACIS is sat which are different.

Parasolid is an excellent kernel. I would put ParaSolid & ACIS at the same level. Interestingly the development team that originaly did Parasolid later created ACIS (Alan Grayer, Charles Lang and Ian Braid).

Tim
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tmay  
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:56:53 AM(UTC)
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Funny how Dassault Systemes owns Spatial Technology (ACIS), but none of its own products use it, and Solidworks uses Parasolids which is owned by Siemens (UGS).

PTC is officially up for sale after a binge of acquisitions with an asking price of $2B, which according to some, is a good deal just to get the customer list.

Crazy world.

tom
Tim Olson  
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:23:06 AM(UTC)
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>>Funny how Dassault Systemes owns Spatial Technology (ACIS), but none >>of its own products use it, and Solidworks uses Parasolids which is owned >>by Siemens (UGS).

I think that irks Dassault:) Solidworks has both kernels but uses ACIS to a much lesser extent. It uses portions of ACIS for deforming and to support a kernel to kernel translation between XT, SAT, and to access the embedded ACIS data from AutoDesk found in AutoCAD and Inventor files.


Tim
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tmay  
#6 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:33:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
>>Funny how Dassault Systemes owns Spatial Technology (ACIS), but none >>of its own products use it, and Solidworks uses Parasolids which is owned >>by Siemens (UGS).

I think that irks Dassault:) Solidworks has both kernels but uses ACIS to a much lesser extent. It uses portions of ACIS for deforming and to support a kernel to kernel translation between XT, SAT, and to access the embedded ACIS data from AutoDesk found in AutoCAD and Inventor files.


Tim


That made my day!

tom
ttrw  
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:42:58 PM(UTC)
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I met the British SpaceClaim team today (isn't working in Coventry fun?- and who needs Solidworks anyway?? :rolleyes:), as spaceclaim is one of the titles the company I'm working with, have been looking at. I was blown away by what this software could do (shame though its PC only- but oh well...).

SpaceClaim very much reminded me of the Shark/ VC/ CU interface too (and of course, that puts into perspective how ahead of your time you are Tim! :) ).

Push/Pull is what we (Shark) need I reckon!! (- and perhaps we don't really need that history tree after all? :eek:)
tmay  
#8 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:13:50 PM(UTC)
tmay

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Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
I met the British SpaceClaim team today (isn't working in Coventry fun?- and who needs Solidworks anyway?? :rolleyes:), as spaceclaim is one of the titles the company I'm working with, have been looking at. I was blown away by what this software could do (shame though its PC only- but oh well...).

SpaceClaim very much reminded me of the Shark/ VC/ CU interface too (and of course, that puts into perspective how ahead of your time you are Tim! :) ).

Push/Pull is what we (Shark) need I reckon!! (- and perhaps we don't really need that history tree after all? :eek:)


SpaceClaim uses the ACIS kernel as well, though I'd speculate that they built their own constraint manager. UGS NX and SolidEdge now have similar capabilities, and PTC's purchase of CoCreate could see those same functionalities migrate to Pro/e.

It looks like the future.

tom
Tim Olson  
#9 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:10:54 PM(UTC)
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>>that they built their own constraint manager.

I don't think so. Most MCAD packages except PTC pretty much uses the D-Cubed 2D/3D constraint manager. D-Cubed is now part of UG. For pushing/pulling faces, they are using ACIS local operations. They put a very nice UI on top of the underlying technology.

I think the most interesting thing to recently happen at SpaceClaim is they removed Mike Payne from the daily activites of the company. Mike Payne was one of the early founders of PTC, founder of Solidworks, former CEO Spatial, and even did a stint as CTO of Dassault.

Tim
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tmay  
#10 Posted : Friday, September 12, 2008 4:40:02 AM(UTC)
tmay

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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
>>that they built their own constraint manager.

I don't think so. Most MCAD packages except PTC pretty much uses the D-Cubed 2D/3D constraint manager. D-Cubed is now part of UG. For pushing/pulling faces, they are using ACIS local operations. They put a very nice UI on top of the underlying technology.

I think the most interesting thing to recently happen at SpaceClaim is they removed Mike Payne from the daily activites of the company. Mike Payne was one of the early founders of PTC, founder of Solidworks, former CEO Spatial, and even did a stint as CTO of Dassault.

Tim


Thanks for the education on Spaceclaim and push-pull functionality in general. I read something to the effect that the original SpaceClaim marketing failed (a lease or equivalent) and that was a major setback. Otherwise, I hadn't been following them.

tom
ttrw  
#11 Posted : Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:26:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post

I think the most interesting thing to recently happen at SpaceClaim is they removed Mike Payne from the daily activites of the company. Mike Payne was one of the early founders of PTC, founder of Solidworks, former CEO Spatial, and even did a stint as CTO of Dassault.


:confused:

I was under the impression that Mike Payne was still very much part of the company? However I did notice that they (SC) are very bitter about companies such as Dassault and Solidworks. I guess its a really tightly knit community, and the competition in particular, very fierce. The SpaceClaim crew were quite positive about Mac OS X, but I know that the CAD movement in general, it seems are really quite dismissive about it- many even lie, and make up ridiculous assumptions that Cupertino's OS isn't up to the job- which of course is all utter nonsense.
tmay  
#12 Posted : Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:33:20 PM(UTC)
tmay

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Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
:confused:

I was under the impression that Mike Payne was still very much part of the company? However I did notice that they (SC) are very bitter about companies such as Dassault and Solidworks. I guess its a really tightly knit community, and the competition in particular, very fierce. The SpaceClaim crew were quite positive about Mac OS X, but I know that the CAD movement in general, it seems are really quite dismissive about it- many even lie, and make up ridiculous assumptions that Cupertino's OS isn't up to the job- which of course is all utter nonsense.


NX 6 will put that the OS X issue to rest, and NX 7 will bring the simulation. Even Solidworks is finally bumping into reality. Rate of seat sales is down, and now subsriptions become even more important to their earnings. They are trying to push a new back maintenance program (which works like an accrual of 1/2 of whatever you would have owed) and this is meeting stiff resistance. It's also very difficult (impossible?) to push a design up from an older version, and back down from the newer, and with the bugs in 2008, a common complaint, some of the lesser known packages, Alibre and IronCAD as an example, are looking a bit better especially to single users, and Inventor LT at a reported $995 could be devastating to Solidworks (the company).

SpaceClaim picked a lousy time to start an MCAD company, regardless of its ease of use claims.

This all bodes well for VC and Shark, as the features are quite broad, cost low, usability excellent, and best of all, cross platform.

tom
ttrw  
#13 Posted : Sunday, September 14, 2008 5:27:28 PM(UTC)
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FWIW, the current pricing for SW's was just over 5000 for the basic package, plus 1500 yearly service pack upgrades (and I'm talking UK pounds here- for $$$'s I guess one doubles my figures?). For SW's Office Professional 2008 we are talking way over 8500 (+1500 yearly service packs)!!! :eek:

Absolutely crazy. Dassault are completely out of touch IMO. Spaceclaim, although much cheaper, weren't that much cheaper, but at least 3000 gets two licences- one home and one work. Yearly service packs work out at 500- still a lot better than 1500!! You can also open SW's assemblies in SpaceClaim, with no hitches whatsoever (I know- I've done it!). This and having sheet metal tools was the clincher

All in all, these figures make Shark FX look like a total bargain. Just get those sheet metal tools together Tim!! :D
ttrw  
#14 Posted : Sunday, September 14, 2008 5:35:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: tmay Go to Quoted Post
cross platform.


Yes- I'm still completely confused why the heavies won't budge from Windows. :confused: I really salute Siemens for supporting other platforms. It the way it should be.

Do you know Mono? Mono could be the answer?!

Also check this guy out. This looks like really good 2D software (actually if you read the small print, you find that this is rather significant too! AutoCAD?? :eek:)- and he wants beta-testers too :cool:
unique  
#15 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:02:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
Yes- I'm still completely confused why the heavies won't budge from Windows. :confused: I really salute Siemens for supporting other platforms. It the way it should be.


Tom,

You are beginning to sound like a paraniod Mac user :D , just face it dude Windows is king for Cad :D
ttrw  
#16 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 7:58:43 AM(UTC)
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What do you mean beginning to sound like?....I am already! :cool:

But you see Paul, I use both platforms anyway. I know both inside out. I bet that you only use Windows? Having used and carry on using both, Mac OSX is simply the clear overall winner on both ease of use and productivity- simple as that. CAD is the only area where I need to use Windows, so I'd far rather stay in one system.

It's also worth mentioning that I have now, despite having spent much money on anti-viral software, spent hours trying to disinfect this copy of Windows from trojan horses and viruses. Whereas on Mac OS X I have NEVER had any such trouble. That speaks volumes doesn't it?

PS, Rhino is also available for Mac ;)
Tim Olson  
#17 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 11:28:50 AM(UTC)
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>>and Inventor LT at a reported $995 could be

It will be interesting to see how SW or Dassault responds. AutoDesk is looking to repeat it's success with AutoCAD LT in the Inventor series. My understanding is Inventor LT is geared towards "growing" markets (IE China) who cannot or will not ante up the full Inventor price but need to review/access data from Inventor. Currently AutoDesk is dealing with these locations by providing regional pricing.

>>$995

AD raised the price of AutoCAD LT to 1200. I wonder if they will likewise raise the price of Inventor LT when it's released.

Tim
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NickB  
#18 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:16:24 PM(UTC)
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I spoke with Unigraphics a week or so back about NX6 for Mac. The current word is that it is still at least 6 months out, and they are not yet into beta testing. This is the same line that they have been giving since I think 2005 when the OS X version was first announced. The marketing guy I spoke to sounded exasperated about the situation.

When (if) it is ever released pricing is likely to be around $5k for a seat. Very comparable with SolidWorks.
Shark FX 9 build 1143
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ttrw  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:34:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NickB Go to Quoted Post
I spoke with Unigraphics a week or so back about NX6 for Mac. The current word is that it is still at least 6 months out, and they are not yet into beta testing. This is the same line that they have been giving since I think 2005 when the OS X version was first announced. The marketing guy I spoke to sounded exasperated about the situation.


I'm not surprised. If its anything to go by, and if NX6 for Mac has shed X11 for being native, then they by going on the timeline of the Mac build of Rhinoceros this is to be expected- and yes of course, Microsoft dropping support for MS Visual Basic in Office for Mac.

Originally Posted by: NickB Go to Quoted Post

When (if) it is ever released pricing is likely to be around $5k for a seat. Very comparable with SolidWorks.


Wow! 5k only??? (well when I say "only" hehe!! ;) ). I was quoted around 8k minimum for a seat of Unigraphics only last year. :confused:

If only Shark FX had sheet metal tools :cry:
lgrijalva  
#20 Posted : Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:56:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
If only Shark FX had sheet metal tools :cry:


I second that!!

Luis G.
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