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Steve.M  
#1 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 12:06:24 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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No disrespect to others on forum, but I have no problem in speaking my mind.

From various bug reports made, these are either un-answered, or simply ignored (well at least not replied to by you). We see bugs that are reportedly going from version to version which (IMHO) is unacceptable.

Your 25 years of CAD should at least show a need for consistency and accuracy which unfortunately I currently do not see in VC/shark.
You really need to get a grip on this,.. or would it be easier for me to find another CAD?(which I would prefer not to for my home modeling)

Regards,

- Steve
jdi000  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 12:47:06 PM(UTC)
jdi000

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Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post
No disrespect to others on forum, but I have no problem in speaking my mind.

From various bug reports made, these are either un-answered, or simply ignored (well at least not replied to by you). We see bugs that are reportedly going from version to version which (IMHO) is unacceptable.

Your 25 years of CAD should at least show a need for consistency and accuracy which unfortunately I currently do not see in VC/shark.
You really need to get a grip on this,.. or would it be easier for me to find another CAD?(which I would prefer not to for my home modeling)

Regards,

- Steve




Steve,

Its good to give your opinion... and certainly no disrespect to you but

In my opinion there is probably not a guy more passionate, deliberate, and consistent than Tim is about his program and its users. I know its a juggling act for the amount of work that needs done on software programming and the available resources, and I believe that there is not one posting that Tim does not look into with all his effort whether he looks at it and takes notes so he can look at later or he finds a quicker fix and posts a reply.

In my opinion when Tim says he will look at something he will look at it with all his effort, it may take some time on more challenging ones but it will get done as we have seen on many items since v5 of the software.

I think that is the reason some fixes take more time than others is due to consistently fixing the issue as to never have to look at again, rather than just put on a band aid, because in the world of software there can be exceptions to every rule that can breakdown seemingly sound logic programming.

I have never used any software that did not have some bugs that needed fixed or were dragging on for longer periods of time, but even the larger companies are on a yearly release cycles that leaves bugs unfixed until the next cycle.

It is good to have everyone here helping each other and helping to point out issues that need addressed. I am glad that so many have jumped in and are helping others.


Regards

Jason
Windows 11, 10
joev  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 4:47:38 PM(UTC)
joev

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 144

Whatever problems the software might have, and I've complained about them as well, Tim's devotion to the software is without question. And from personal experience Tim is top-notch for customer service. I challenge anyone to find a piece of software without bugs or workarounds, at any price range.
dudko  
#4 Posted : Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:20:11 AM(UTC)
dudko

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Originally Posted by: joev Go to Quoted Post
Whatever problems the software might have

Directly said> cad-accuracy, handling, some failure functions.
Steve M wrote:
From various bug reports made, these are either un-answered, or simply ignored (well at least not replied to by you). We see bugs that are reportedly going from version to version which (IMHO) is unacceptable.

yes=unacceptable!!!!
Steve.M  
#5 Posted : Sunday, June 21, 2009 5:39:32 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Jason,

Originally Posted by: jdi000 Go to Quoted Post
I know its a juggling act for the amount of work that needs done on software programming and the available resources,..........


But my question to that (as I believe I have put forward before) is why are there so many bugs/problems to be resolved. Normally on a new release of software it is the new features/tools that I would look at and test for possible problems, but the tools that give me problems have been in the product for many versions.
jdi00O wrote:

I have never used any software that did not have some bugs that needed fixed or were dragging on for longer periods of time, but even the larger companies are on a yearly release cycles that leaves bugs unfixed until the next cycle.
If you really want to make comparisons to other programs, then give me an example. Show me in another program where splines move when segmented or joined, or where 2 rail sweeps can give various bad results depending on spline type used or even surface matching that does not comply with the example in the user manual.

I do like VC, if I did not, then I would of removed it some time ago, and certainly would not of upgraded, however, my patience is getting short.


Regards,

- Steve
Alan Bransom  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:48:57 PM(UTC)
Alan Bransom

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 4/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 17

Hi Jason, Tim and everyone,

I've been out of the loop for a while but I thought I ought to put in my two cents worth.
I'm with you Jason, our friends obviously don't know Tim too well, and I'm glad he has taken a holiday. Too much work and all that.
I have recently dropped out of the Beta team, too many other things on my plate at the moment, you guys were way ahead of me anyway.
I would like to suggest that if there are any criticisms of the way things are being handled then maybe there may be room on the beta team for some of the critics.

Best regards, as always.

Alan Bransom.
Steve.M  
#7 Posted : Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:15:41 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: Alan Bransom Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jason, Tim and everyone,
Hello Alan.
Originally Posted by: Alan Bransom Go to Quoted Post

I've been out of the loop for a while but I thought I ought to put in my two cents worth.
Timing can be everything, but not on this occasion, maybe "too little too late".(possibly for me?)
Originally Posted by: Alan Bransom Go to Quoted Post
I'm with you Jason, our friends obviously don't know Tim too well,
I only know Tim due to using VC, which I believe is Tims program. I make opinion of the programmer using said program and nothing personal is taken into that opinion. My personal opinion is that VC/shark are buggy and need serious attention, others may think otherwise, not because they do not see the bugs, but possibly due to they do not need that specific tool/function anyway. From my own use, there are many tools/functions that I will not use, but that does not infer that I will not in the future want to use them, or the fact I would not expect those tools to actually work.


Originally Posted by: Alan Bransom Go to Quoted Post

and I'm glad he has taken a holiday. Too much work and all that.
I certainly have no argument, time away is always needed (IMHO)

Originally Posted by: Alan Bransom Go to Quoted Post

I have recently dropped out of the Beta team, too many other things on my plate at the moment, you guys were way ahead of me anyway.
I wonder to what "Beta team" you refer?. From my purchase of version 6(my introduction to this product) I have found a need to constantly download the latest builds to get basic functions to work, not that those functions are specifically to new tools, but tools from the previous versions.
Originally Posted by: Alan Bransom Go to Quoted Post

I would like to suggest that if there are any criticisms of the way things are being handled then maybe there may be room on the beta team for some of the critics.
Personally, to me,, beta testing is to test new products, or new tools/added functions to previous versions, not a need to report problems to current implemented tools, unless that is of course due to some regression, or possible break due to new implementation.
unique  
#8 Posted : Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:19:04 PM(UTC)
unique

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 6/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591

Guys,

Lets just agree that some areas of development are slow. This could be be because there are not enough developers to fix up bugs as well as developing new tools (maybe because of budget) OR because the current & loyal user base have never reported them in the first place...hence why its at V6 and still got basic problems.....

IMHO 90% of the time when bugs are exposed by users they are squashed by Tim, 5% are found & fixed only to re-appear, 5% are acknowledged but between releases are not fixed.

Im sure the next release of software will be fantastic in more ways than one...let just hope it attracts more users & revenue to take the software up a level where it belongs...;)
Steve.M  
#9 Posted : Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:44:24 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
...let just hope it attracts more users & revenue to take the software up a level where it belongs...;)
I agree.

I now give up with bug reports as most do nothing.

Maybe better for me to go back to other software for a few months.

See ya later,.....



- Steve
unique  
#10 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2009 1:38:43 AM(UTC)
unique

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Posts: 591

Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post
I now give up with bug reports as most do nothing.


Nahhh dont do that mate...Have you emailed Tim directly to see what can be done about the bugs you are talking about and when he plans to fix them?

Quote:
Maybe better for me to go back to other software for a few months.

See ya later,.....


As you wish Steve it sometimes helps to do that........clear the RAM:D

See you back here in a fortnight !!!!!!!;)
jol  
#11 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2009 3:14:52 AM(UTC)
jol

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I understand your frustration - however you are making such a brilliant contribution - and I'm sure you'll see with the next release the huge effort you and the rest of the dedicated crew here have put in has really helped power things forward !

In the mean time - we just need to keep channelling those very precise repeatable scenarios - such that Tim and can get straight to the crux of any issue
ttrw  
#12 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2009 4:22:30 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post

See ya later,.....


NO!!! Don't leave us in the lurch! Paul and Jol are right. You've made some brilliant contributions, and I've learnt masses just by watching your tutorials and bug fix demands. Life on this forum would be very dull without you Steve :( :D

DON'T GO!!
David Gross  
#13 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2009 11:16:24 AM(UTC)
David Gross

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Hi

I started using Vellum Solids back in 1998 and as the new releases came out so did the bugs. It got to a point where the software was almost impossible to use.
Then the two company's split and I did eventually move over to CU and found CU to be much much more stable than Cobalt was, but again as the new releases came so did the bugs. Right now 50% of the time I spend using Shark FX I lose to crashes and exporting dwg's. I have purchased some new software and I guess I'll see how it goes.
David Gross
Dmg Design
Colgate, Wi.
ttrw  
#14 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2009 1:20:19 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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Originally Posted by: David Gross Go to Quoted Post
I have purchased some new software and I guess I'll see how it goes.


David, can I ask what you have purchased and why?
Steve.M  
#15 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2009 10:41:42 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
Nahhh dont do that mate...Have you emailed Tim directly to see what can be done about the bugs you are talking about and when he plans to fix them?
Should I really need to do that? Tim mentioned on another thread about sending bug reports in directly to punch,.. tried that, same result, should I really go to another (probably)annoying "lack of communication"?


Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post

As you wish Steve it sometimes helps to do that........clear the RAM:D
Even for my home hobby modeling, I need workflow that is not interrupted with unexpected results. I certainly know with nurbs that problems can happen later with a base construction that is in error, but as you and other should of seen from my various posts, that is not the case.(even though some have attempted to push forward a lot of bugs are down to user error ), in fact, some surfaces produced from VC actually cause problems.(I have posted examples in another thread)
Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post

See you back here in a fortnight !!!!!!!;)
I will still be around. At this time I have models to build that simple cannot be done in VC/VC pro. I get popup errors for various, or get surfaces that will not correctly stitch, or when stitched will not allow shelling (again, I have posted about such).

I know from my acceptance of the license agreement I have to accept what is,.. but that does not make me happy, or find I need to continue on a road that is bumpy.

I know also many put forward a comparison that other software is buggy. I do agree, but that is only because the end user feels thay have no other option than put up with software with bugs, and that any bug fixes are not a requirement,.. quite laughable in my own thoughts.


- Steve
Steve.M  
#16 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:00:31 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
I understand your frustration
I think a number of forum members also see that, but some put that frustration down to my own lack of knowledge of the product.


Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
- however you are making such a brilliant contribution
My problem is I get blunt. I speak my mind which is not always acceptable to others. I have mentioned many times, and will state again,.. VC/shark could be excellent,.. at the moment it is "Good" but unpredictable at times,.. or even "good" with undesirable/un-manufacturable (is there a word?)output.



- and I'm sure you'll see with the next release the huge effort you and the rest of the dedicated crew here have put in has really helped power things forward !
Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post

In the mean time - we just need to keep channelling those very precise repeatable scenarios - such that Tim and can get straight to the crux of any issue
I do that, but get annoyed with lack of info from developer.


- Steve
Steve.M  
#17 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:27:30 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Hi Tom,


Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
NO!!! Don't leave us in the lurch!
Not a case of leaving, just a case of finding some sanity.
I look at CAD for precision and expected results. I certainly understand limitations in various other products and can easily work with other options


Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
Paul and Jol are right. You've made some brilliant contributions,
You would of seen on other threads where I make a bug report, then another reports no problem,.. however, they do not show an example, even after request. (examples if needed)


Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post

and I've learnt masses just by watching your tutorials and bug fix demands.
That statement actully make me happy that I have taken the time. Dont get me wrong, with buggy software, such may be needed more. :)


Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post

Life on this forum would be very dull without you Steve :( :D

DON'T GO!!
Forum life is not my concern,.. VC/shark Is a concern to me,.. but,...what,...who cares,......
Steve.M  
#18 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:36:19 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Tim, mod,

Please remove this thread.
Although I believe my grievance is correct and just, I still do not want to be seen as attacking the product, which unfortunately it looks like some think I am doing.

I do believe there is a need for many man hours to fix various problems, call them bugs or unexpected results, or whatever.

All users of CAD need expected results, until those results show, or, an explanation on to various results and to why is put forward,.. then I will have a problem, but so will many others who look at VC/shark as CAD(more so if they have used other cad systems.)

I have no intention to try and cause issue, but I am tired of buggy software. I can understand some bugs/problems, but someone would need to show me directly that a non-buggy cad system is not possible before I will continue to purchase upgrades.

I know I am possibly just a pain, but all I want is a cad system that does as advertise.

Regards,

- Steve
ttrw  
#19 Posted : Monday, June 29, 2009 1:46:22 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post

Please remove this thread.


No, don't remove this thread.

It's really depressing to see Steve hang himself here- which he doing, clearly. Questions still haven't been answered. Not even a hint of whether there is a problem or not. It IS wholly self-destructive, almost government-like. :(

I realise more and more, that this software demands that you get everything right from the offset, and unlike most other CAD software out there, VC/ Shark leaves little or no room for deviation, so you have to get it absolutely spot on to start with, or else- your doomed (look at the modelling a guitar example- elsewhere). Even studying the manual gets me nowhere (as I have found). But it's a "chicken and egg" situation, as in order to be competent with VC, you gotta be an expert too- or as it seems to me, and the only way to achieve that is to devote your life to the software, and like many, I suppose, I simply have too much of an alternative life to fit in (or too little?).

But, like usual, I don't really know why I am saying this, because according to the record, I may as well just go and speak to a brick wall. Not good.

Why am I so bothered? Well I do actually like this software, because when it works, it's very rewarding. But I have so many other things to do, everyday, and I simply can't remember that chain of executions I did the last time round in order to repeat again. Also not good.
unique  
#20 Posted : Monday, June 29, 2009 2:58:59 AM(UTC)
unique

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Posts: 591

Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
No, don't remove this thread


I agree. I dont see a problem with Steve speaking his mind, I personally agree with a lot of his comments but I simply refuse to get wound up using it.....whats the point if you have other tools at hand?

FWIW Constructive criticism must be embraced by users & development, it should not be seen as a personal rant otherwise what progress will be made:cool:

Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
But I have so many other things to do, everyday, and I simply can't remember that chain of executions I did the last time round in order to repeat again. Also not good.


Thats fine Tom BUT would it not be better to post your problems when you have them otherwise how will they ever go away?. Grab a pad & pen and start the mission !!!
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