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Better awareness of Shark .. in it to win it (#1727)
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jol  
#1 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2008 2:24:16 AM(UTC)
jol

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I know the marketing guys at Punch are making strides. However, ask a typical designer what Shark is - and you get either dodgy car salesman or type of fish with a full cartilaginous skeleton and a streamlined body

If more people know about these tools, it serves all it's users better. I could for example get more freelance work and you guys would get more users to pay for that shiny new turbo Surface Match implementation you're working on : )

Rhino has never been an incredible tool in my opinion, (though it's clearly strong in places). Everywhere you search for CAD, they have made 100% sure the name Rhino can be seen. Therefor, it's up there with a shout

Look in ANY magazine or forum about CAD - you'll see familiar names everywhere - but never Shark .. well why ever not ?

(And you can't rely on spamming current users for expanding the user base - that will get us nowhere)

Hell, even virtually useless or impossibly expensive CAD tools are often seen debated

Are we trying to keep Shark a secret ?

I think for everyone's benefit, it's time the marketing dept there did some serious carpet bombing to blogs, magazines and so on .. and not let up until whenever you find a discussion about what CAD app to use, Shark is seen as a contender !

thoughts welsome
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jol  
#2 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2008 2:24:47 AM(UTC)
jol

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Perhaps try Carl Alviani .. he writes a regular column for Core77 about CAD for designers. Core77 is a site that lots of ID guys look at daily .. at least you could try and get a mention !
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jol  
#3 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2008 2:38:02 AM(UTC)
jol

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Someone pointed this out before .. but there is not even a mention of Shark on the Wiki CAD page. So many I've never heard of though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CAD_software

I just know if it was my job to get the name out there, it'd be in front of everyone's nose ! I'm sure we can do better

No mention in Cadalyst, CADuser, MCADonline .. hell, there's barely even a mention on Architosh !
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dexter  
#4 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2008 6:40:07 AM(UTC)
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Jol, you're spot on.

I was at a tech event last week here, and bumped into some SolidWorks resellers. They asked me what my prime CAD package is, and I mentioned our friends at Punch.

The had not heard of them. They had heard of Ashlar, and I explained the fill-in from there.

More marketing will certainly be necessary once the whole line is fleshed out with the 3 consumer and 3 pro packages. Maybe it's time to create some buzz for the release?

D
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ttrw  
#5 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2008 10:33:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dexter Go to Quoted Post
They had heard of Ashlar, and I explained the fill-in from there.


That's it! That's what I hear too (or its TurboCAD) :eek:

I was told by someone here on the list, after I mentioned a list of CAD companies on Wikipedia (Shark was not on the list :( ), that I could update the wikipedia page- but why should I? The marketing guys should be doing that right?

BTW, I mentioned Punch software to an American colleague- who answered "WallMart". Kind of sums it up eh? marketing people? ;)

Tim needs more credit than this/that Punch dudes!

On a nicer note though, the SpaceClaim reps were up on Shark and knew what I was on about straight away! Probably the Dassault Systemes connection I guess?

So yes- I agree with you both wholly.
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tmay  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:18:08 AM(UTC)
tmay

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Shark and VC will get good exposure with Mac users at MacWorld San Francisco in January.

tom
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jol  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:53:31 AM(UTC)
jol

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Tom -- that's all good but I think what's called for is a massive awareness campaign, targetting CAD magazines, blogs, news and computer sites, design & engineering schools and design outfits.

I've heard that Punch! etc have attended MacWorld before, but all I see - if I'm lucky - is an entry in Architosh.

Hell, even Cheetah3D manages to create a buzz - and you can't even make anything with that !

Q. : Go google "Mac 3D Apps" .. tell me what you get !

A. : SketchUp, Cheetah, Blender, VectorDesigner ?, Wings, Pixels, Lightwave etc etc

Marketing such a tool is not rocket science, it's a case of writing a lot of emails and spending a little money !
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jol  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:05:25 PM(UTC)
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Shark is on neither Versiontracker or MacUpdate

They are free .. what are you waiting for ?
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tmay  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:03:33 PM(UTC)
tmay

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Tom -- that's all good but I think what's called for is a massive awareness campaign, targetting CAD magazines, blogs, news and computer sites, design & engineering schools and design outfits.

I've heard that Punch! etc have attended MacWorld before, but all I see - if I'm lucky - is an entry in Architosh.

Hell, even Cheetah3D manages to create a buzz - and you can't even make anything with that !

Q. : Go google "Mac 3D Apps" .. tell me what you get !

A. : SketchUp, Cheetah, Blender, VectorDesigner ?, Wings, Pixels, Lightwave etc etc

Marketing such a tool is not rocket science, it's a case of writing a lot of emails and spending a little money !


Jol,

Shark didn't exist for last years MWSF. Shark needs the following to compete in a wide market:

ACIS 19
3D constraint manager
Solidworks part import/export
Sheetmetal
Lightworks update


In the OS X universe, there isn't any MCAD competition at all for Shark. Ashlar hasn't delivered a Universal version of Cobalt, Vectorworks even with Parasolids being incorporated isn't focused on MCAD, and Siemens hasn't delivered NX 6, which is way outside Shark's market. ViaCAD gets exposure in Apple stores against TurboCAD, and ViaCAD Pro might be available throught the Apple store online (I'll have to check that).

In ID, there are a few other packages, Luxology and Think! come to mind, that would be competitors, with Rhino a year out. I'm not in that niche, so I'll defer to you on competitors.

Marketing specific to the Mac market makes a lot of sense at this time, but without the enhancements that I listed, Shark will be competing with Inventor LT, Alibre, Solidworks, SpaceClaim, etc in an open market. Giving V6 the functionalities listed and at the price points of Shark, will make Shark a strong competitor. Otherwise, a major marketing effort might fall on deaf ears.

I would add that we are in a financial crisis and a worldwide recession, and at least here in the U.S., individuals, corporations and educational institutions are paring back spending.

tom
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jol  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:20:45 PM(UTC)
jol

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Tom .. they were launched at MWSF

Otherwise, I'm not arguing with you at all - I agree 100%

However, there's a track record of really poor brand building with both Concepts and Shark and it needs to change. Ask anyone, designer or otherwise about either and they'll say "Hu, Shark, Eh ?"
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tmay  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:57:46 PM(UTC)
tmay

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Tom .. they were launched at MWSF

Otherwise, I'm not arguing with you at all - I agree 100%

However, there's a track record of really poor brand building with both Concepts and Shark and it needs to change. Ask anyone, designer or otherwise about either and they'll say "Hu, Shark, Eh ?"


I guess I'm your living proof that MWSF didn't make a big difference. I only heard of Shark as an upgrade from CU in these forums.

(I would agree with myself 100% if it didn't sound so pretentious...)

At any rate, Shark FX 5.5 build 816 has been very reliable for me, so if anybody wants to market the heck out of it, I won't stand in their way.

tom
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jol  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:13:31 PM(UTC)
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Yep .. they have the product ..

Time to bang on the drum !!
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ttrw  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:00:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Shark is on neither Versiontracker or MacUpdate


This is very true and something I too have pointed out before.

Actually, CU is still on VT, but no Shark :(
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:17:48 PM(UTC)
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I would strongly urge Punch! to also advertise ViaCAD/Shark in LinuxFormat and Linux User & Developer, paying to get a spot on the monthly DVD and in the magazine. Why?


Well, I'm an avid, rabid Linux user who is STUCK in win vista land because IBM refuses to modernize my favorite suite (Lotus SmartSuit) to compete head-to-head with ms office anymore nor against Open Office.org.

And, there are other Linux users who dual boot and don't use VirtualBox or VMWare. If these such users need simple yet powerful CAD apps, they might be using corporate assets such as their employer's AutoCAD license or other apps' licenses. I cannot afford AC, and refuse to use it for my hobby. If ever i am not with the same employer, i'd be SOL if all my work were fine-tuned in AC. By using ViaCAD, i get to enjoy a world of CAD not stuck in the AC way of doing things. VC renders REALLY fast on my laptop (1.4 GHz CPU, 1.5 GB RAM given to vista (with ~320 for Mandriva Linux), and even running Lotus 1-2-3 and DelftShip and other apps in the background VC still performs acceptably fast for me, thought file saves take a bit of time, yet with 816 seem to be faster than 806...).

I used to use Win4Lin, but VirtualBox works out a lot better. If Punch! can target those drafters (pro or casual) who might be dual-booters or VirtualBox/VMWare users, Punch!, with its good prices, might be able to appeal to even the most die-hard/GNU/LGPL prospects. Besides, I've tried VariCAD, CADSchroer (these two have win and Linux versions), TurboCAD, and DesignCAD, to name a few. ViaCAD -- for me -- is much simpler, less cluttered, and easier, tho i wish the Concept Explorer were beefier. So, I envision having to upgrade to VC Pro or Shark.
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jol  
#15 Posted : Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:43:14 AM(UTC)
jol

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Once again .. I see 3D CAD news on Core77 .. all the usual suspects are mentioned, but not Shark or ViaCAD. They are your audience guys !

What are you waiting for ?
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ttrw  
#16 Posted : Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:48:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Core77....They are your audience guys !

What are you waiting for ?


Design Week too!!
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grahamdesign  
#17 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2008 3:43:39 PM(UTC)
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And the Apple Store has Graphite as a "Staff Pick" in their downloads section.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/...imaging_3d/index_sp.html
Brian Graham
Mac OS Ventura 13.6.3
Mac mini Apple M1
16GB
1TB SSD
Shark FXv 14 Build 1641
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jol  
#18 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2008 3:50:55 PM(UTC)
jol

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I have seen no proof of any marketing whatsoever - except spam - from Punch !

.. and none from CSI before it (save perhaps a showing on Versiontracker)

I think it's a shame - particularly when I see a market savvy company like Rhino and what they're been able to build thru' the years

A brand doesn't build itself - it's been shown that building a good brand is as important as building a good product ! Sadly one is no good without the other

I suspect in a year's time, I'll still be saying the same thing
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grahamdesign  
#19 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2008 9:03:21 PM(UTC)
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Jol:

You know, the rub here is what we do, that design thing, it is not easy to understand, nor explain, to lay people. To market a product effectively you need to first have a deep understanding of the people you are trying to sell to, the problems they need to have solved, and then build a product to meet those needs.

I think, IMHO, Tim has done a great job in getting this product to where it's at, I mean, for me it works superbly; Right after my first initial sketch I need to get to full scale right away and develop the design, and Shark is my tool of choice. I don't generate realistic renderings and don't need an engineering solution. Shark is the ideal "tweener" solution for me. But I'm a lightweight user, and might be in the majority.

I think, again IMHO, Punch might be well advised to survey the designers in this forum to better understand their needs, then address those needs with the capabilities that their software embodies. it's all about telling stories that are relevant to people. Something we've been keenly aware of in the last few days of our coming election.

But, hey, this is preaching to the choir...
Brian Graham
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Mac mini Apple M1
16GB
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Shark FXv 14 Build 1641
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jlm  
#20 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 3:14:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
spam - from Punch !

Yes, I also get that useless stuff about kitchens and bathrooms...
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