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jol  
#1 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 4:42:26 AM(UTC)
jol

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Here's a story of the potential pitfalls of designing and making your own stuRf

I, together with a community of crafts people (they're mostly in Germany) are being sued by a certain massive clothing company over trademark infriingement

Read and weep ..

http://www.odechair.com/ode/ode/blog.html

For those who speak German, google "jack wolfskin abmahnung"
or click here : http://www.werbeblogger.de/2009...ffnet-den-abmahn-herbst/

Things are really kicking off

: )
Steve.M  
#2 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 5:08:04 AM(UTC)
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Well, its a farce. How can anyone have copyright (or whatever they want to describe it as) over a cat pawprint. It is not as if any thought or creativity as gone into its design, its a paw print.

looking at the bottom of your post the ": )" reminds me of how insane trademarks/copyright can be:-


Quote:
Who Owns the "Frowny" Emoticon :-( ?

What happens when a company obtains a trademark on one of the most frequently used symbols of online life, the "frowny" emoticon? For millions of Internet users, the symbol rendered as " :-( " - a sequence of keyboard's colon, dash and parenthesis mark - is an arch way to convey sadness in email messages.

But is this widespread practice still legal? In 2001, Despair, Inc., a Dallas-based maker of spoof inspirational merchandise for the corporate world, played a colossal practical joke that exposed the absurdities of current copyright trademark policies.....Despair sought to have its corporate logo, the "frowny" emoticon, declared a legal trademark. It applied in 1998, and two years later, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office actually awarded Despair a trademark in the emoticon [registration #2347676]. On January 2, 2001, Dr. E.L. Kersten, the Founder and COO of the company, announced plans to sue "anyone who uses the so-called 'frowny' emoticon, in their written email correspondence. Ever."

Playing the gag for as much as it was worth, the Despair press release announced that the company had "filed suited yesterday in a U.S. District Court in Dallas, alleging trademark infringement against over seven million individual Internet users. The company has requested separate injunctions granted against each. It is believed to be the largest single trademark dispute in history." The company even claimed it had used the FBI's controversial "Carnivore" Internet wiretapping system to identify the seven million individuals who had illegally used the :-( symbol in email.

http://www.brandnamebullies.com/excerpts.html


- Steve
jol  
#3 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 5:49:30 AM(UTC)
jol

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interesting Steve !

I expect a fight as the german blogs have been on fire with this

I will certainly never buy anything from Jack Wolfskin again - my mistake
ttrw  
#4 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 7:36:29 AM(UTC)
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Outrageous! I really detest this very corporate behaviour. I makes me want to puke! Maybe they just want free product design from you, for nothing, for the rest of your life? Perhaps you could turn it around and sue them instead?

I wonder if this is also the reason Cheetah3D's logo (a cat paw print) has been dropped too? Maybe Martin has had the heavies sent round too? :eek:

Don't let the b*stards grind you down, Jol. I will also never buy their gear.
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jol  
#5 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 8:40:36 AM(UTC)
jol

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Cheers TT - I can always could on you !
Steve.M  
#6 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 8:42:14 AM(UTC)
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It will be interesting to see how this goes. I presume you have read up on Trademarks or you would not have made that sarcastic (but truthful) blog.


Just for info:-

Quote:
What is trade mark infringement?

If you use an identical or similar trade mark for identical or similar goods and services to a registered trade mark - you may be infringing the registered mark if your use creates a likelihood of confusion on the part of the public. This includes the case where because of the similarities between the marks the public are led to the mistaken belief that the trade marks, although different, identify the goods or services of one and the same trader.

Where the registered mark has a significant reputation, infringement may also arise from the use of the same or a similar mark which, although not causing confusion, damages or takes unfair advantage of the reputation of the registered mark. This can occasionally arise from the use of the same or similar mark for goods or services which are dissimilar to those covered by the registration of the registered mark.



Quote:
What is a trade mark?

A trade mark is a sign which can distinguish your goods and services from those of your competitors. It can be for example words, logos or a combination of both.

You can use your trade mark as a marketing tool so that customers can recognise your products or services.

A trade mark must be:

* distinctive for the goods and services you provide. In other words it can be recognised as a sign that differentiates your goods or service as different from someone else's.


quotes taken from:- http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-about.htm


looking on Dawanda website, I see various products with cats paws, are they infringing? http://en.dawanda.com/search?fi...roduct&page=1&q=cats+paw
jol  
#7 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 9:20:17 AM(UTC)
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Who knows Steve .. actually I assumed there was some common sense behind trademark law .. that may be my downfall

Either way, I have nothing - so I have nothing to lose
jol  
#8 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 9:21:38 AM(UTC)
jol

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I have been in touch with the IPO
Steve.M  
#9 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 11:08:39 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Who knows Steve .. actually I assumed there was some common sense behind trademark law .. that may be my downfall


Who has actually contacted you over this? (is it one of the cash cow enforcement agencies?)
I really dont see how you can be sued for trademark infringement based on the info you have given here.

- Steve
jol  
#10 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 11:36:17 AM(UTC)
jol

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Steve - they just held a press conference

Bizaarly they are sticking with their absurd idea of suing 60 craftspeople

to give you an idea - it's on the Spiegel

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/...ik/0,1518,655890,00.html

maybe you can't read German - but see the images - a fluffy pink cushion for a dog for example, also seqines sewn on a sleeveless ladies vest thing in paw shapes

You can also throw it through the Google translator - then you get the idea .. http://translate.google.com/#

Also .. see the comments here - it's pretty firey !
http://www.werbeblogger.de/

If it wasn't so bizaar - it would be funny !

I've written to the UK press .. I hope they carry it tomorrow - but who knows .. I'm not sure it's a big brand in the UK
ttrw  
#11 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 12:47:57 PM(UTC)
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I suppose you've seen this too?;

http://www.9to5mac.com/apple_against_woolies

Apple, Microsoft.... they're both crooks at the end of the day! :rolleyes::mad:
Steve.M  
#12 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 12:48:36 PM(UTC)
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Right, I see. It is the cash cows going after anyone they can.
If the paw is on an item, then is could be considered a breach, but from your point, a sticker with just a paw, then I still say no.


- Steve
jol  
#13 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 1:11:43 PM(UTC)
jol

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Well the way it works in Germany is - the lawyers decide who infringes

(that would be me)

and they send them a bill for the costs of processing the complaint .. around a grand !

If you pay, they go away .. and you only have 3 weeks to do so

After 2 weeks you MUST have signed an agreement of acceptance of wrongdoing

If you do not - they have you in court

Sadly they have lawyers with very expensive habits .. who are probably not first timers

so you're a bit f^&ked if you do and f$%ked if you don't

That's all I know so far
ttrw  
#14 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 2:39:51 PM(UTC)
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But you're not in Germany. So how are you supposed to know this?

But then again, Gordon Brown could always extradite you to Germany? (like poor old Gary Mckinnon) :eek:

Just tell them to go suck a lemon! (like Fat Tony does ;) ). If they did sue, you'd probably make more out of the publicity!
jol  
#15 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 3:41:03 PM(UTC)
jol

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very good - : )

and probably not far off the mark !
Steve.M  
#16 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 3:42:41 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Well the way it works in Germany is - the lawyers decide who infringes
They are the cash cows, similar to the uk lawyers "Davenport Lyons" and "ACS Law" who chased copyright infringer's.(ACS law are still at it I think)

Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post

and they send them a bill for the costs of processing the complaint .. around a grand !

If you pay, they go away .. and you only have 3 weeks to do so

After 2 weeks you MUST have signed an agreement of acceptance of wrongdoing
That is exactly what was happening with those 2 UK lawyer firms who sent out letters for a settlement - or else.
Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post

If you do not - they have you in court
Only if they can prove the case, in your case, I dont think they can.
Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post

Sadly they have lawyers with very expensive habits .. who are probably not first timers

so you're a bit f^&ked if you do and f$%ked if you don't
Unfortunately a lot of it is simply scare tactics for a quick cash income. They know the accused cannot afford the cost of the defense needed and most will pay up early to stop being taken to court.

- Steve
Steve.M  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 3:54:02 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
Just tell them to go suck a lemon!


Basically, yes. I certainly would.

The German Pirate party was founded 3 years ago, as anyone there contacted them?


- Steve
jol  
#18 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 4:26:44 PM(UTC)
jol

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Hmm .. research time

pirates aaaaaye !
Steve.M  
#19 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 4:34:55 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
pirates aaaaaye !


Aye me matey. http://www.piratenpartei.de/
Steve.M  
#20 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 4:46:31 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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This is part of what was going on earlier in the year with ACS law sending out letters to accused copyright infringer's (p2p/ file sharing)

http://www.hellmail.co.uk/posta...articleid=1521&zoneid=14



- Steve
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