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norbertsf  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 6, 2010 11:22:31 AM(UTC)
norbertsf

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I am having problems skinning s solid from these curve paths. I created them with splines, and then mirrored them. I have tried rebuilding them and still no skinning. I have checked the normal direction, and made sure that they are closed. Can someone take a look at this file?

Thanks,
Norbert

UserPostedImage
File Attachment(s):
skin solid-prob.sfx (23kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Steve.M  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 8, 2010 6:34:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: norbertsf Go to Quoted Post
...... and made sure that they are closed. Can someone take a look at this file?


Only the first profile is closed. On the second profile, check location shown (view from front).

The other 2 profiles are also open.
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norbertsf  
#3 Posted : Friday, January 8, 2010 6:51:08 PM(UTC)
norbertsf

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Steve.M

Is there a command to check wether a curve is closed or not, and to locate the break? I don't see one in the verify command, and since most operations require a closed curve it seems that would be usefull?


Norbert
Steve.M  
#4 Posted : Friday, January 8, 2010 7:05:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: norbertsf Go to Quoted Post
Is there a command to check wether a curve is closed or not, and to locate the break? I don't see one in the verify command, and since most operations require a closed curve it seems that would be usefull?


No. VC/shark is not helpful in curve/surface construction.
jdi000  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 8, 2010 8:04:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: norbertsf Go to Quoted Post
Steve.M

Is there a command to check wether a curve is closed or not, and to locate the break? I don't see one in the verify command, and since most operations require a closed curve it seems that would be usefull?


Norbert



Hi Norbert

There is 2 commands that you can you use, 1 helps to show the open areas the 2nd just if they are closed.



1. select the curves and use verify--> area if the curves are not closed you will get an error message. this does not show you the open points, and you have to use the deep select tool to select the curves if they are grouped,


2. Do a simple extrude on the curves and it errors out and shows blue marks where the curve is open. See Pic


Shark/Viacad has the tools they just need a little tweak, It would be excellent to have a decicated tool to check profiles, one that actually leaves the blue marks on the curve till the user deletes them, or it could put points there to mark the endpoint of the opening...


Regards

Jason
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Windows 11, 10
norbertsf  
#6 Posted : Friday, January 8, 2010 9:33:52 PM(UTC)
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jdi000,
Regarding #2 Seems like it should be a standard verification in all tools that require a closed curve....

Norbert
Steve.M  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 9, 2010 1:23:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: norbertsf Go to Quoted Post
jdi000,
Regarding #2 Seems like it should be a standard verification in all tools that require a closed curve....


Extrude solid will attempt to close an open curve. As in your example, the extrude solid will only report one profile as open, which is incorrect for the skin solid tool. You will also notice on the second profile how the extrude solid tool extrudes the profile incorrectly.
jol  
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 9, 2010 5:33:31 AM(UTC)
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There's work to do in this department !

It really impacts beginners inparticular who dont have a large repertoire of workarounds

We need to consider some improvements to 'check object' as assessing problems with profiles has always been difficult

Tim had the idea of a profile checker at one time - I dont think anything came of it

checking a curve should tell you if it's planar and if it's open and show it's endpoints or self intersections .. ie any issue that may cause a problem when it is used by a downstream surface or solid tool

'Check Object' should be in the right click menu and bring up a report on-screen

.. a failing extrude or cover surface command (for example) should invoke 'check object' .. and thus pinpoint EXACTLY where potential issues lie !
blowlamp  
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 9, 2010 7:10:03 AM(UTC)
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The Select Chain tool can sometimes help to find broken lines too.

Martin.
jol  
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 9, 2010 10:06:41 AM(UTC)
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yes - lots of different thing sometimes help

.. that's not good enough anymore !

Let's have a decent profile checker on both the right-click AND integral to tools requiring profiles .. and let's include it as a subset of the object checker tools

I still faff about wondering what's wrong with some profiles .. about time we had a strong contingent here to benefit all tools requiring profiles as input !
blowlamp  
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 9, 2010 11:43:52 AM(UTC)
blowlamp

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I think there is actually a more fundamental fault here, either with the Mirror tool or with the the curves produced by Shark.
Taking Norbert's file and Ungrouping the largest outline (twice) into its 4 component parts. I then deleted 3 of them, leaving only 1 spline curve in the upper-left quadrant - it being my intention to start afresh with a new outline by use of the Mirror tool, just to make sure some basic error hadn't occured. I found that I couldn't get a clean intersection of the curves in the X axis with the Mirror tool, as there was always some overlap of the lines. I feel this is the reason for some of Norbert's problems. Please see screen shot.

Martin.
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norbertsf  
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 9, 2010 11:56:46 AM(UTC)
norbertsf

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blowlamp,

Thanks for looking at the file so closely. When I was making the shapes, I assumed that they had to be closed. I mirrored them SEVERAL times(since the extruding kept failing) at the SNAP points, so I thought "there MUST be no gap since they are mirrored at the ends". I did not look at the zoom you did, because in most CAD Apps, you trust the snap and mirroring accuracy of the programs so that you don't have to check as you just did (too time consuming..can you imagine)

Norbert
norbertsf  
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 9, 2010 7:52:06 PM(UTC)
norbertsf

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Just a foot note. I am not knocking Shark/ViaCAD. I would not have upgraded to Shark from ViaCAD if it was not a great tool.
(I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around Rhino, much easier to learn Shark I feel, but Rhino has some item I wish...).
Thanks to the Forum members and to Tim for making this product better and better.

Norbert
Tim Olson  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 11, 2010 2:47:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: norbertsf Go to Quoted Post
I am having problems skinning s solid from these curve paths. I created them with splines, and then mirrored them. I have tried rebuilding them and still no skinning. I have checked the normal direction, and made sure that they are closed. Can someone take a look at this file?

Thanks,
Norbert

UserPostedImage


Hi Norbert,

Thanks for posting the file. I made a change in 926 that should help identify profiles with gaps integrated into this tool. Here is a video showing the updated change with your example file.

http://www.csi-concepts.com/Dem...harkFXV7/skinSolidv7.mov




Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Tim Olson  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 11, 2010 2:59:16 PM(UTC)
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>> I found that I couldn't get a clean intersection of the
>>curves in the X axis with the Mirror tool,

The start and end points of the curve are not exactly along the x axis.

x start = -3.192694
x end = -3.192609

We're using the ACIS recommended tolerances of 0.000001 for same point identification.

The repair profile tool (and have it recognize groups so we dont have to ungroup/group) sounds like a good tool update to fix something like this.

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
jdi000  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 11, 2010 6:29:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tim Olson Go to Quoted Post
Hi Norbert,

Thanks for posting the file. I made a change in 926 that should help identify profiles with gaps integrated into this tool. Here is a video showing the updated change with your example file.

http://www.csi-concepts.com/Dem...harkFXV7/skinSolidv7.mov

Tim


Tim

It would still be nice to see the broken points after you close the menu. On a large profile or complicated profile its hard to remember exactly where the open points are. An option to leave the points marked or create a marker at the gaps would seem to be a important option? Thoughts?


Thanks

Jason
Windows 11, 10
jol  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:56:42 AM(UTC)
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Agree with JD !

I want to see and review where profiles are considered un-closed
blowlamp  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:46:25 AM(UTC)
blowlamp

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I agree with the last few comments about showing open lines, but I still don't understand why I couldn't mirror the curve successfully.


Martin.
Steve.M  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:57:50 AM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: blowlamp Go to Quoted Post
I agree with the last few comments about showing open lines, but I still don't understand why I couldn't mirror the curve successfully.


Martin.


There is hidden geometry on the construction layer causing incorrect snapping.
blowlamp  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:40:17 AM(UTC)
blowlamp

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Originally Posted by: Steve.M Go to Quoted Post
There is hidden geometry on the construction layer causing incorrect snapping.


Steve.
Ah, I can see now from Concept Explorer that there are objects on the construction layer, but I can't get Shark to reveal anything by doing a Show All command - this just adds to the mystery for me :confused: Thanks for your reply.

Martin
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