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UGMENTALCASE  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 5:07:21 AM(UTC)
UGMENTALCASE

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I tried, yesterday, a basic assembly of some parts I'm building. Saved each separately and had an assembly part which I brought them into. It worked ok, but the instance you forget to select the individual modified part, and do a save as, and overwrite the separately saved part, it becomes a nightmare. Plus like you say, you move stuff about and the sketches stay where they are? Massively confusing! Also you have to select the actual part in the model, can't select a layer and save that, which in this instance was the entire part.

So go to this location.

C:\Users\ChrisMSI\AppData\Local\Punch!\ViaCAD Pro

Replace ChrisMSI with your pc name, and there is a list of .ini files. Open them in notepad++ (preferably - easier to read) and go through them. Some things are set to FALSE, which when changed to TRUE shows toolbars. I edited the resolution files to make things sharper on the edges. My pen weights just would not stay as I set them, so I found them played with the setting files and now they would nicely. I like nice thin edges, not massive chunky things, which it kept reverting too.

It's like the symbols, I have made up a load of my own, which I use regular. Put them in the right place, but the only way to properly use them is to flatten all the views, which renders them useless, otherwise you bring them into the view, and depending on whether the symbol was placed on xy, xz or whatever plane, and depending on which way the drawing view is depends on whether they show or not.

I posted a while back that when you flatten the views, they move. Can't see that anything has been done to resolve this. It could be a handy feature if say you want a 'dumb' view to show something before a mod, or whatever, but when the view moves, nothing is then in line, so what's the point? I feel like I'm moaning a lot, but we have a program here which demands a fair price. From a hobby type approach, would you spend that much? Probably not, especially when we have some really powerful options to use, but then there's all this niggley stuff that goes with it. Bit of a shame.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 09, 2018 5:14:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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NeuTechFLA  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 5:55:17 AM(UTC)
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I too have played around with a pseudo "Assembly" and found exactly the same as you. I realized quite quickly for it all to stay intact, manual saves and reference updates to the attached parts were required. It's just like the old days when a member of my team spread across the design floor, would call out "SS!" (Strategic Save), all the others with open files related to that assembly would save their files, close out, wait for the "AC!" (All Clear) signal and then resume working. Team Building at it finest! Now Windchill, PLM or TeamCenter does it all behind the curtain. Sad....

Regardless, I was able to "navigate" that minefield okay until the Monster came to bite me. That was the ability to move and/or align/mate parts together in one file, which I tried and then then....Crash and Burn. Imported files cannot be properly linked to one another it would seem. Anyway, I gave it a go, the code freaked out and I had to exit stage left. This is where updated and robust Assembly functions would be stellar. So many possibilities!

Thanks for the code primer. I am running Shark Pro and it seems to have the ability to modify, set and keep the things you have shown. I too like a clean and non-clunky visual environment. I set all those items to my taste early on and have not had any weirdness within the work space to speak of since. Maybe you could screen dump an image of the Toolbar(s) you have brought out of hiding?
posh.de  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 6:04:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: L. Banasky Go to Quoted Post

...hopefully my memory is correct.
It started with Ashlar.

it is not, it started with CADD Pro in 1994 being licensed as OEM in 1996 by Ashlar (which had only Vellum which is mainly for 2D drafting at this time) and distributed as 'Vellum Solids' and later on as 'Cowblat' (as well as functional stripped down derivatives).

Edited by user Tuesday, January 09, 2018 6:05:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

POSH GmbH
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thanks 1 user thanked posh.de for this useful post.
L. Banasky on 1/9/2018(UTC)
UGMENTALCASE  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 6:37:07 AM(UTC)
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Nothing too exciting, you can just show the fill toolbars and things like that, I also found a Variables and Equations toolbar which I'm trying to figure out, no idea what it does or how to use it but looks like it could be useful?

Also attached the image of auto constraints and there's one for show constraints as well, but they don't seem to have any affect
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L. Banasky  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 6:55:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: posh.de Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: L. Banasky Go to Quoted Post

...hopefully my memory is correct.
It started with Ashlar.

it is not, it started with CADD Pro in 1994 being licensed as OEM in 1996 by Ashlar (which had only Vellum which is mainly for 2D drafting at this time) and distributed as 'Vellum Solids' and later on as 'Cowblat' (as well as functional stripped down derivatives).


Thanks Posh.de,
I've used both for so long, and they are so similar, I get confused.
Track Ball, View Ball, Navigator, they all look and act the same.
Sheet Into View, Model to Sheet, still hasn't changed a lot over the years.
Thanks again,
Larry
posh.de  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 7:23:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: UGMENTALCASE Go to Quoted Post
...but they don't seem to have any affect

the D-Cubed 2D/3D constraint manager was removed several versions ago mainly because of royalties for a seldom used functionality but also a mediocre implementation which would have required a lot of love to be fully integrated.

Besides of this, all 'big boys' have promoted over the last several years that they have enabled "Direct Modeling" besides the constraint driven modeling concept which is mainly important for the less creative purposes of MCAD modelers.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 09, 2018 7:24:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Jolyon  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 7:49:43 AM(UTC)
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As I remember constraints were stripped out some years ago - they didn't get used - debatably they weren't implemented well. The resources went into other things eg. facet modelling.
Jolyon  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 7:55:48 AM(UTC)
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You can 'live' section an object using 'infinite plane'(s) and the cut section tool.

Moving the Infinite plane(s) updates the sections

Probably not the answer you're looking for

(right click an infinite plane > 'use as clip plane' ... gives you a cut-away- which is 'live' ... ie you can move the section
NeuTechFLA  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 8:52:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jolyon Go to Quoted Post
You can 'live' section an object using 'infinite plane'(s) and the cut section tool.

Moving the Infinite plane(s) updates the sections

Probably not the answer you're looking for

(right click an infinite plane > 'use as clip plane' ... gives you a cut-away- which is 'live' ... ie you can move the section


Close but a bit clunky and laborious. But, thanks for the insight into that technique.

NeuTechFLA  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 9:29:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: posh.de Go to Quoted Post


Besides of this, all 'big boys' have promoted over the last several years that they have enabled "Direct Modeling" besides the constraint driven modeling concept which is mainly important for the less creative purposes of MCAD modelers.


Posh.de, very true. The Big Boys have promoted it endlessly, but in reality DM is not used widely in the proper MCAD world. I have noticed their are two camps with regard to "ooey-gooey" direct modeling vs. explicit/constraint modeling. The first camp are the concept developers/animators that can whip something up is a few seconds for discussion. The second are the Designers that have to convey reality within the concept that can live on into production. Also, just because it's explicit/constraint driven modeling does not mean it is restricted or less creative. I have seen some very impressive people do very incredible modeling in both methods. But, unless the main objective is lifelike 3D animation, like a Pixar movie, then DM is usually not the method used for very long in the process. And even then, software like Maya and Blender still use an underlying explicit (constrained) structure to control the final results/movements. For example, I mostly use Creo for my day job and I do find situations when I use virtual "goo" (in Creo there are multiple tools: Style, Freestyle, Warp, Solid Freeform, Surface Freeform) as the base feature and then push/pull/morph things into a concept. Even though it's Direct Modeling, 99% of the time it's only good to a certain point for most situations. It's only my experience with Creo that allows me to use that DM model in production. Unfortunately I can not deliver these models to clients as no one could change or revise it later without the model imploding. In other words, if I know I will always be in control of the data, I will use very advanced techniques like DM. Otherwise, I have to use well known modeling techniques so others can revise it later. In the end, usually all unconstrained/direct models that have made it through to prototype/production stage have to be remodeled or constrained to live through the data cycle. The time required is not any less to product release. It's either done in the beginning or at the end. At least this is my experience.

Finally, I am not dismissing the value of either method described above. VC/Shark somewhat sits in the center of both techniques very similarly to Catia, NX, Creo and to a lesser degree SolidWorks. In other words, VC/Shark is not Maya, Blender or any other "ooey-Gooey" code at its core, so it would be unfair to compare it on that basis. I simply see VC/Shark at a very interesting position in the MCAD market. A few added things and it becomes a Player in my opinion.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 09, 2018 9:31:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

UGMENTALCASE  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 10:06:13 AM(UTC)
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This is an example of the curves not joining I was on about.
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NeuTechFLA  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 10:33:09 AM(UTC)
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How was that created? Is that a sketch or an intersection of some kind?
UGMENTALCASE  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 1:05:52 PM(UTC)
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Just an arc, offset, a line drawn between the two end points. Hit the join curve and that happens! I've had it happen on other simple shapes, but only realised when I'm 10 operations into the design and it then won't change because there's too much doing on after it. Hence I try and keep them all seperate now and just select each line/curve whatever as I need them
jdi000  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 1:45:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: UGMENTALCASE Go to Quoted Post
Just an arc, offset, a line drawn between the two end points. Hit the join curve and that happens! I've had it happen on other simple shapes, but only realised when I'm 10 operations into the design and it then won't change because there's too much doing on after it. Hence I try and keep them all seperate now and just select each line/curve whatever as I need them


You could try to group profiles instead of joining.

Regards
Jason
Windows 10, Win 7
NeuTechFLA  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 1:45:12 PM(UTC)
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I just tried to duplicate that in Shark 10 Pro and ViaCad 9 and I do not see that result.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 09, 2018 1:45:49 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

UGMENTALCASE  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 2:03:50 PM(UTC)
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Should I be joining curve or grouping curves? As far as I'm concerned I'd be joining them, otherwise we need a work around manual! NeuTechFLA, when you flatten drawing views do they move? Seems Sharks functions which are the same as ViaCADs have issues as well.
jdi000  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 2:13:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: UGMENTALCASE Go to Quoted Post
, when you flatten drawing views do they move? Seems Sharks functions which are the same as ViaCADs have issues as well.


Are you saying the the whole draw view and everything inside moves or does individual geometry shift within the view?

Regards

Jason
Windows 10, Win 7
UGMENTALCASE  
#38 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 2:29:06 PM(UTC)
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The whole view moves, i posted the error in drafting section, and i put a dimension between a flattened and non flattened view

Cheers
murray  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 3:11:59 PM(UTC)
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Join curve is a blend tool between curve segments that don't connect, not a points-coincident constraint tool Shark/VC doesn't recognise polylines except as an import in an .spl text file, and even in that case, the entity imports as discrete line segments, but you don't have to double-list coordinates in the text editing. Within the workspace, polyline or other point-coincident entities don't exist. Grouping entities doesn't make them points-coincident or fix spacial or geometric relationships.

My mistake: polygons created as closed polygons ARE point-coincident entities.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 09, 2018 3:35:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

UGMENTALCASE  
#40 Posted : Tuesday, January 09, 2018 3:48:50 PM(UTC)
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Hi, I've recorded the screen to show what happens. If the join curve doesn't join curves what else do you do to join curves?
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