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awieneke  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2008 3:34:46 PM(UTC)
awieneke

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Hallo,

ViaCad will not blend my edges.
I would like to have a blend around my objekt with 0.2 mm but it does not work. Is there any possibility to do it.

please look at the attachement
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blowlamp  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2008 5:08:10 PM(UTC)
blowlamp

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I managed to do something for you - I don't know if it helps. One edge won't blend properly and I'm not sure why, but check it out anyway.

All the best, Martin.
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awieneke  
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 4, 2008 12:56:35 AM(UTC)
awieneke

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Thank you blowlamp :-)
how did you solved my problem ?
i allways got errormasseges in ViaCad 6.0
jol  
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 4, 2008 1:40:40 AM(UTC)
jol

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Hi Andreas - terrific work !

.. I have emailed you with a question. I hope you can help !
awieneke  
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 4, 2008 2:37:26 PM(UTC)
awieneke

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i will trie this week-
I love your chairs
unique  
#6 Posted : Sunday, September 7, 2008 12:58:06 PM(UTC)
unique

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Originally Posted by: blowlamp Go to Quoted Post
I managed to do something for you - I don't know if it helps. One edge won't blend properly and I'm not sure why, but check it out anyway.

All the best, Martin.


Im actually having a few issues myself filleting this part. Blowlamp: I would be interested to hear what method you used and what software ver.

Thanks!
ZeroLengthCurve  
#7 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 1:54:46 PM(UTC)
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I was having this problem myself, but mine may have been to my possbily not using the took correctly nor not using the directions properly. On a lark i used the "explode curves" tool to extract/copy-in-place the edges and fillets.

Then, I used the fillet tool to set my desired radius.

Next, I used the blend tool to set my corners/vertices radii, and then i used other blend options to radially smoothe out the tips of the vertices. I got *pre-tttty* excited when i managed to do that.

In the process, i realized/re-remembered that i can extrude solides to a surface to make new or make corrected non-touching surfaces when i remove too much material. For example, I have a "wall" that is not vertical, and it's not flat. I have structural supports that are t-beams (or, I-Beam with no flange on the wall surface). When I used interference check to leave in place the geometry to make for the solids to be removed (to make "cutouts" for the stiffeners) i find that my stiffeners and the originating station lines are not all touching the edge of the "floor" plating. I think i may be able to use "extrude" to just build the flooring/deck right up the the surface/solid and avoid all the time-consuming "correction" steps.

The more i use ViaCAD and learn new things, the giddier i become.
unique  
#8 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 5:24:00 PM(UTC)
unique

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Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
Im actually having a few issues myself filleting this part. Blowlamp: I would be interested to hear what method you used and what software ver.

Thanks!


Okay...apologies for not looking closer at the model, I assumed the edges of the solid were tangent and in fact after the bend they ended up with kinks, hence why it failed to blend.

awieneke: It can be done with just three extra blend features, do the 4 edges first on the end part then the sides of the part, be careful to select the edges in order & also that you select anything but the small line edge first...try it and you will see why ;)

Tim: I have sent you an email with a few issues about the above.
awieneke  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:48:41 AM(UTC)
awieneke

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Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
do the 4 edges first


do you mean this edges? it looks now how open surfaces.
awieneke attached the following image(s):
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unique  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:49:48 AM(UTC)
unique

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Originally Posted by: awieneke Go to Quoted Post
do you mean this edges? it looks now how open surfaces.


Hi Andreas,

I have attached the file I worked on. Look in the feature tree how the model was filleted etc, you may need to unsuppress a couple of features to see the final model.

HTH
File Attachment(s):
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awieneke  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:30:15 PM(UTC)
awieneke

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Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
see the final model.

HTH




thank you, i think i have learned it now :-)
bradcan  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:33:57 AM(UTC)
bradcan

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Originally Posted by: awieneke Go to Quoted Post
ViaCad will not blend my edges.


True enough it won't, because you have close to but not T1 continuity as a result of the bend operation. (NB. G1 ~ 1st derivative equal at the join) Use 'show direction' to see this. No amount of blending the perpendicular edges works in your case. It should, and often does, on simpler shapes.

This works however:
Suppress the bend. Select all edges then 0.2 radius blend.
Reorder the fillet to before the bend.
Un-suppress the bend.

Do the short edges in the cutout then the others.

Of course, if you had done it in this order in the first place it would have worked just as well.

See attached.
File Attachment(s):
bogenforforum_blend.vc3 (1,282kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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unique  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:43:05 AM(UTC)
unique

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Originally Posted by: bradcan Go to Quoted Post
.......No amount of blending the perpendicular edges works in your case. It should, and often does, on simpler shapes.


Not sure what you mean by perp edges?? You are correct in that the edges of the solid are no longer G1 BUT that does not mean it cannot be filleted in VC as I have shown earlier in this thread ??
bradcan  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2008 9:10:05 AM(UTC)
bradcan

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Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
Not sure what you mean by perp edges??

Edges which intersect with the edges being blended. In this case the ones generated by the bend. Actually not necessarily perpendicular at all, but are in this case.
Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
BUT that does not mean it cannot be filleted in VC as I have shown earlier in this thread ??

True, but acis seems to go pair shaped in some subtle cases. Tim pointed out that nearly G1 is problematic. This is the case here I believe. Just how nearly, nearly has to be I'm not sure.

There is also something about intersecting edges which eludes me. In this example I can't blend the conic edges without first blending the end faces, which is very odd.:confused:
bradcan  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2008 10:29:06 AM(UTC)
bradcan

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The attached clearly shows how the end faces affect the ability to blend.

I have created a simplified version of awieneke's model. Notice the end faces, one is perpendicular to the conic edges the other not. The little cubes clearly show this.

As it stands, with the left end, non perpendicular, face blended, the conic edges blend OK. However suppress fillet 389 before attempting to blend the conics and acis throws error: 'could not find acceptable sequence of capping faces to trim blend face'.

This error occurs all the time, often after spending ages computing.

I'm almost sure that the 'capping method' for a blend is selectable in other acis based systems I've used. (It's been a long time).

support: An explanation of capping methods/limitations would be very welcome.

unique: You might find this [URL="http://doc.spatial.com/r19/index.php"]acis documentation[/URL] usefull.;)
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awieneke  
#16 Posted : Friday, October 10, 2008 9:56:05 AM(UTC)
awieneke

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Joined: 2/22/2008(UTC)
Posts: 70

Hallo,

i thought, that i do know now, how blendig works.
But now i do have a new modell what will not blend i would like to have it.:mad:
This time the blendfunction opens a hole in my ring.
Radiou 0.2 works not, Radius 0.1 works, but not allaround ( approximately ?)
What is wrong with my modell ?

Maybe it helps me to know, what you mean with T1 and G1 in the previous replies

Thank you
File Attachment(s):
xringopen.vcp (1,194kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
awieneke attached the following image(s):
xringopenblend.jpg (12kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Tim Olson  
#17 Posted : Friday, October 10, 2008 10:44:31 AM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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Originally Posted by: awieneke Go to Quoted Post
Hallo,

i thought, that i do know now, how blendig works.
But now i do have a new modell what will not blend i would like to have it.:mad:
This time the blendfunction opens a hole in my ring.
Radiou 0.2 works not, Radius 0.1 works, but not allaround ( approximately ?)
What is wrong with my modell ?

Maybe it helps me to know, what you mean with T1 and G1 in the previous replies

Thank you


This looks to be a display facetting error that has been fixed by ACIS with R18. Try changing the resolution to see if it corrects in your build.

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
unique  
#18 Posted : Friday, October 10, 2008 12:33:10 PM(UTC)
unique

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 6/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591

Originally Posted by: awieneke Go to Quoted Post
Hallo,

i thought, that i do know now, how blendig works.
But now i do have a new modell what will not blend i would like to have it.:mad:
This time the blendfunction opens a hole in my ring.
Radiou 0.2 works not, Radius 0.1 works, but not allaround ( approximately ?)
What is wrong with my modell ?

Maybe it helps me to know, what you mean with T1 and G1 in the previous replies

Thank you


Hi Andreas,

Something strange about this file/model :

I simply changed the colour of the model (Black to Blue) and the fillet showed
better. Either suppressing or deleteing the fillet changes the display or colour in the object info !!!!!

Did you model the solid in VC before the fillets or was it imported or ??

--

See attached. Your geometry is not on centre and doesnt appear to be concentric ?. Anyway I did a quick n dirty take in VC and it fillets OK. My only concern is the outer fillet will not match the four fillets (0.2)...is this a limitation with ACIS Tim or is there an explanation?
Steve.M  
#19 Posted : Friday, October 10, 2008 3:06:19 PM(UTC)
Steve.M

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Originally Posted by: awieneke Go to Quoted Post
What is wrong with my modell ?


Hello,

Putting aside the problems with the display as mentioned by Tim, there is a problem with the model and/or file.

If you check the outer diameter of the model is is not actually on the same c/l as the inner diameter, I am not sure if this in itself is causing the problem as I did rebuild the model using you model as ref (and built the model within you file). But that led to problems with booleans and numerous popups for inconsistencies.

I did then rebuild in a new file just using the dimensions from the model (may not be exact), but I was then able to blend without error.

I have attached the re-build:- just add the fillets.

- Steve
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bradcan  
#20 Posted : Saturday, October 11, 2008 4:07:25 AM(UTC)
bradcan

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Joined: 8/3/2008(UTC)
Posts: 55

Originally Posted by: awieneke Go to Quoted Post
Maybe it helps me to know, what you mean with T1 and G1 in the previous replies


Sorry T1 was a typo(mistake) and should have been G1

G1 Continuity definition: "The continuity of the join between two edge curves is said to be G1 if the first derivative (slope) of the curves is equal at the join".

You can observe it in your models using Verify Show Direction. (Should actually be show normals;))

The attached file Not G1.jpeg is a screen shot of the edge join created by the bend operation in your original model, showing the normals. Note DOUBLE arrows at the joins. Whereas G1.jpeg after a blend, now the edges have equal normals, SINGLE arrow, at each of the joins.

ACIS is supposed to be able to blend non G1 but often cannot.

Blending complex geometry is often difficult and can be very frustrating. ViaCad is little different to some much more expensive modelers, in this respect.
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Not G1.jpg (97kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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