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Reuben5150  
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:40:49 PM(UTC)
Reuben5150

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 6/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 25

Hi,

Anyone running any of the concepts modelers on win xp-64x ?

I always got an error when trying to run any of the demos or full version of ViaCad.

Something like - Microsoft visual c++ runtime error, the application caused runtime to close in as unusual way.

Don't remember the exact wording, i've since reverted to 32bit - just to run
viacad, so if there's some way to get the app working please let me know, thanks.

Reuben
posh.de  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 22, 2007 4:13:57 AM(UTC)
posh.de

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Reuben5150 wrote:
win xp-64x ?


what exactly is the advantage of a 64-bit OS, at least besides being slower than the 32-bit variant (because of the added overhead for the extended memory management) and a (currently) bad driver support?

just wondering,

Norbert
POSH GmbH
www.posh.de
Reuben5150  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 22, 2007 9:21:49 AM(UTC)
Reuben5150

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 6/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 25

I have no problem with drivers etc.

I'm running a dual xeon 64 bit system so it make sense to run a 64 bit os, any 32bit app or os has be run in "emulation mode", 64 bit handles much larger amounts of data and can support much more memory which is what i need.

I'm not asking for a 64 bit version of Concepts, only that app can be used on a 64bit system, i use various modelers and 3d apps without problem.

I don't think the 64 bit version of XP is slower by any means, faster in fact, can't speak for Vista though, i expect its dependent on system and configuration.

Regards

Reuben
Reuben5150  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:01:21 PM(UTC)
Reuben5150

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 6/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 25

This is the exact error i was getting when trying to run the app on xp 64 -

UserPostedImage


i only managed to capture it because its happened a few times on the 32bit os while working in ViaCad.

Hmm the image is not displaying for some reason, never mind -

[URL="http://www.affinity3d.com/tempimages/puncherror.jpg"]http://www.affinity3d.com/tempimages/puncherror.jpg[/URL]



Reuben
nick.mucci  
#5 Posted : Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:55:39 PM(UTC)
nick.mucci

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 2/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3

The advantage to a 64-bit architecture is that you can address more than 4GB of memory. A 32-bit CPU (and operating system) cannot address that much memory. So if you need lots of RAM, a 64-bit machine is the way to go. There are also advantages when working with large numbers; on 32-bit machines, some large numbers are broken up and stored in two 32-bit registers, whereas those same numbers would only require one 64-bit register on a 64-bit CPU.

32-bit compatibility mode is accomplished atrociously poorly in Windows XP64. The OS itself isn't even XP, it is derived from Windows Server 2003. Running non-native binaries is a crapshoot on XP64, sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't. If instructions are called that the hardware or OS don't implement the way the program expects, you will get to watch your program crash. Sun figured this problem and worked out 32/64 bit binary compatibility on Solaris ages ago, Microsoft should have learned some lessons from them.

I have one XP64 workstation and it is so troublesome that I'm going to reformat it, dig up an XP32 license and install that instead. The machine only has 2GB of RAM, so there's no loss.

If the 64-bit Windows issues are fixed in CUv5 though before I reinstall the XP64 box with XP32, I will be very happy.
Reuben5150  
#6 Posted : Saturday, June 30, 2007 3:45:19 AM(UTC)
Reuben5150

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 6/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 25

Problem solved !

I simply set compatability mode to "windows xp", although it now needs some testing time under 64x

Reuben
Reuben5150  
#7 Posted : Saturday, June 30, 2007 2:05:49 PM(UTC)
Reuben5150

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Joined: 6/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 25

Ok so its working on XP64x, but i'm having a problem with screen redraws, its down to about 5fps in some cases !

Don't know if this is due to running in compatability mode or whether trying different video drivers will do any good, any ideas anyone ?

BTW, just got Concepts 3D too.... :)

Reuben
posh.de  
#8 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2007 4:03:53 AM(UTC)
posh.de

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Reuben5150 wrote:
I have no problem with drivers...


...or whether trying different video drivers will do any good...


what video card resp. GPU did you use?


Norbert

P.S.: btw, Win XP 64-Bit is, at least according to all benchmarks I know off, a little bit slower than the 32-Bit version and definitely needs more working memory as well hard disk space for itself because of the 64-bit savvy addressing of the main memory.
POSH GmbH
www.posh.de
Reuben5150  
#9 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2007 9:45:12 AM(UTC)
Reuben5150

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Joined: 6/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 25

posh.de wrote:
what video card resp. GPU did you use?


Norbert

P.S.: btw, Win XP 64-Bit is, at least according to all benchmarks I know off, a little bit slower than the 32-Bit version and definitely needs more working memory as well hard disk space for itself because of the 64-bit savvy addressing of the main memory.


Slower running on the exact same hardware ?

The card i'm using is a Gainward GeForce 7800GS+, based on the 7900 chip with 512mb onboard ram, the fastest AGP card made apparently.

Reuben
posh.de  
#10 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2007 10:42:58 AM(UTC)
posh.de

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Reuben5150 wrote:
Slower running on the exact same hardware ?


due to increased memory pointers pointing to the much bigger address space the same data occupies slightly more space in main memory as well as in the caches (and on hard disk too) and thus simply needs (a little bit) more time for managing it.

anyway, gets OT.

Reuben5150 wrote:
... i'm using is a Gainward GeForce 7800GS+ ...


the fastet AGP card currently appears to be the XFX GF7950GT using the GeForce 7950GT GPU, probably not very much faster than yours.

you are surely using the lastest GF ForceWare driver v93.71-WHQL f. XP-64 from Nov. 06 ?

N.
POSH GmbH
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Reuben5150  
#11 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2007 1:17:40 PM(UTC)
Reuben5150

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 6/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 25

Yes i tried the latest driver and also some older ones, the redraw rate was so bad i gave up and reverted back to XP32 bit.

Even on 32 bit the performance is not much better though, but at least i can have a shaded dynamic view, whereas before i had to set the dynamic view to wireframe... i have to say that even the now-discontinued and very old ElectricImage modeler or EIM (which was ASIC based btw) has a much better screen redraw rate.

What is the problem with concepts, would it run better with "pro" hardware ? Nvidia quadro etc ?
Reuben5150  
#12 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2007 3:49:26 PM(UTC)
Reuben5150

Rank: Junior Member

Joined: 6/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 25

It is a driver issue, but a case of reverse logic, the newer forceware drivers run slower with my card, they don't recognize the GPU properly, i installed the drivers that came with the card and i'm back up to 60pfs :)

I suspect it might be a problem finding suitable 64bit drivers for this card, it sounds strange but the issue is probably limited to this particular model.

Reuben
posh.de  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, July 3, 2007 3:15:09 AM(UTC)
posh.de

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Reuben5150 wrote:
I suspect it might be a problem finding suitable 64bit drivers for this card, it sounds strange but the issue is probably limited to this particular model.


yes, not uncommon, we had this already too with a notebook (Quadro FX Go), seems that current drivers are optimized for recent models only sothat the latest main version of the driver released not very long after the card is sometimes a good choice for avoiding these issues.

I would also install the latest Intel chipset driver for your mainboard which may have an influence on the speed of the AGP slot too:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/


Norbert
POSH GmbH
www.posh.de
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