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PRP  
#1 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 12:10:30 PM(UTC)
PRP

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Hi,
I just upgraded my system partly to improve speed of displaying 3D work. The actual display got worse! When rotating parts there are patchy spots and significant delays. I'm wondering who knows what system is best for displaying typical 30MB files, Mac OS, Windows 7, or Windows 7-64bit.

I'm on Mac OS 10.6.6 and Parallels 6 with Widows 7 32bit. The latter displays without the patchy spots, but still slow. Is 64 bit worth upgrading Windows 7?

The new system I'm using is a MacPro5.1, 6 core, 12GB RAM with an "upgraded" ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB video card. I'm displaying on a Cintiq 21". The OS and all files are on a RAID0 of three 120GB SSD's. Everything else absolutely screams.

Thanks
NickB  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 1:53:48 PM(UTC)
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Are you running Shark using Parallels and Windows 7 on a Mac ?
Why ?
Your Shark license will allow you to install both the Mac and Windows versions, so run it natively.

If you are running Shark in Parallels, have you tried using Bootcamp instead and checked performance that way ?

I see no difference in performance when I run the same model on OS X or Win 7 Professional 64 on my systems.

Your machine should absolutely scream, with that kind of processing power and three raid'ed SSD's. A 30 MB file is not a large file, the issue is part complexity, but even that only effects rotating the part, panning and zooming. If panning and rotating are fast and smooth then the issue is probably a bad graphics card or driver.

I know very little about the Wacom Cintiq, but if it uses special drivers check that they are up to date, and talk to Wacom.

Have you tried connecting your system to a conventional display ? If that works without the patchiness and delays then the problem is probably with the Cintiq.
Shark FX 9 build 1143
OS X 9.5
3.6 GHz Core i7, 8GB, GTX 760 2GB

matter.cc
mikeschn  
#3 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 7:54:30 PM(UTC)
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If you're serious about using Shark, I would consider getting a dedicated Wintel.

Tiger Direct sells a quadcore barebones system for $299 if memory serves me.

Now while I've never had the chance to test a huge file in Shark, I can tell you I've tested huge files in other CAD software, and the Quadcore Wintel is up to the challenge.

Of course, if you'd like to post your huge shark file, I'd be glad to pull it up for you and see how it responds...

Mike...
ViaCAD Pro 12 on Windows; Viacad Pro 14 on Mac
PRP  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:27:20 AM(UTC)
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Hello Nick & Mike, thanks for the replies.

I should mention the 6-core CPU is 3.33GHz and the 3 SSDs are each Intel X25 120GB. I'm running Shark FX beta build 959.
I'm using Windows only as a test to see if the display problem also occurs with Windows 7. Nick, are you saying you get similar rotation performance with Mac and with Windows 7 -64? This is a complex part with a lot of rounds and fillets. Attached is a jpg of the Object Counts. My only problem with screen breakup is in Mac OS, and only with rotations. I may be getting over-aggressive trying to rotate faster than practical. The display breakup also shows up on other monitors (1680 X 1050, 60 Hz) - but same display board, though that board is also used with Windows 7 -32 under Parallels.

Mike, are you implying that the Windows code for Shark FX is significantly faster or more stable than for Mac? Sorry, but for patent reasons I can't publish the file. I think, with Parallels 6, I should get pretty snappy performance with this setup.

What is strange is that everything else has sped up incredibly, except for 3D zoom and rotation in SharkFX. Loading, saving, window movements, etc are fast, but rotations of complex objects in both Windows and Mac haven't improved much (and the display issue occurs with Mac). Attached also is an Xbench comparison of the earlier and current MacPros.

Anyone else getting display breakup with objects of this complexity? What OS?;
NO? What video card?

Thanks Much!
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PRP  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:02:05 AM(UTC)
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I guess "Object Counts" doesn't say too much about part complexity. Attached is an STL file export showing the complexity in terms of facets and vertices.
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mikeschn  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:18:35 AM(UTC)
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PRP,

Anytime you emulate an OS you are going to be slower than running an OS natively.


I don't run Shark on a Mac, so I can't compare speeds, but I do know that I run Shark on some fast Wintels, and they are pretty quick.

For a starting point I look up the cpu on passmark.com

for example, if you would get a 980x cpu you would be at a passmark cpu rating of about 10,000

Of course, this does not address any display settings...

Mike...
ViaCAD Pro 12 on Windows; Viacad Pro 14 on Mac
jol  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:23:45 AM(UTC)
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Bootcamp is better for graphics card intensive stuRf. No emulation needed .. you're effectively running a PC

Parallels is the poorest choice I'm afraid as (I believe) the one thing that is still reliant on emulation is access to the Graphics adapter

VMWare Fusion 3.1 is apparently very good with graphics rich work (some magnitude better than Parallels) - you can cross-upgrade for cheap as I understand
NickB  
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:40:27 PM(UTC)
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I would lean toward bad drivers, or a bad card, particularly if you are having the same problem with another display.

When I upgraded from 10.5.2 to 10.5.4 I had driver problems with the crappy X1600 in my iMac you can see what that looked like here:
http://forum.punchcad.com/showthread.php?t=1323

I will try and test with a complex part on both systems latter today, but in the past the Windows drivers have always been better for Open GL than the Mac ones.

Your system sounds pretty new, have you called and talked to Apple ?
Have you checked Apple discussions to see if other people with your card are having problems ?

Additionally, if you can share the part that is giving you problems then I could test performance on my system. Private message me if you want.
Shark FX 9 build 1143
OS X 9.5
3.6 GHz Core i7, 8GB, GTX 760 2GB

matter.cc
PRP  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:20:12 AM(UTC)
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Hi Jol, Thanks for the response.
Have you seen the reports on Parallels recently? Fusion used to be far better, but in the past year or so Parallels has really improved, and version 6 is very good; I've used both for many years, tossed out Parallels about 4 years ago for Fusion, then recently tossed out Fusion; the new Parallels is very stable and fast (I have no connection with them...).

Bottom line is I'd like to use Mac native for Shark unless Windows7-64 with the 64-bit Shark is far better, which I haven't heard yet.

Good comments all. I'll look at Apple forums and AMD regarding this card, along with driver updates.
jol  
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 23, 2011 3:17:29 AM(UTC)
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OK PRP - I need to keep up : )

Good luck solving your problem
posh.de  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 24, 2011 6:24:09 AM(UTC)
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Display glitches occuring during transformation operations (zoom, pan, rotate) are regularly caused by the OpenGL support of the used graphics card driver.

OpenGL output in virtualized surroundings is never fast and often not stable.

Multiple cores in general do not improve speed of modeling operations in 3D modelers.

htc,
Norbert
mikeschn  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 24, 2011 7:18:02 AM(UTC)
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Is that something that a Quadro FX card would help?

Quadro FX - Full-featured, high-performance professional 3D graphics solutions for desktop and mobile workstations.

Mike...
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posh.de  
#13 Posted : Monday, January 24, 2011 8:15:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mikeschn Go to Quoted Post
Is that something that a Quadro FX card would help?

maybe, but Quadros are expensive... a [URL="http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_285_for_mac_us.html"]GeForce GTX 285[/URL] probably does provide the best bang for the buck... but only if the OGL output of the GeForce driver deliverd by Apple is more reliable than the Radeon version?

Norbert
Albatrossflyer  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 24, 2011 12:24:16 PM(UTC)
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I've read a few reviews concerning the drivers for the optional Quadros cards. Apparently they're terrible at best. The authors strongly recommended saving your money and not buying them.
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