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jol  
#1 Posted : Saturday, December 20, 2008 6:07:24 PM(UTC)
jol

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I'm looking to cut multiple sections using multiple infinite planes .. all in one go !!!

I'm also looking to cut multiple objects with a single infinite plane .. all in one go !!!
zumer  
#2 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:51:39 AM(UTC)
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Both requests would be quite easy to do if there provision for some sort of scripting. But, to achieve part of the second one: make a second copy of your file. Add the parts that don't touch and one plane will section all of those. Adding two parts is easier than defining the same plane to section each of them. If the parts touch, adding them will make a single homogenous mass that won't give a satisfactory profile, so touching parts have to be done separately. I don't know how Macs work, but in Windows you could either copy & paste the sections back into your original file, or delete everything but the sections and import the entire file back into your original.

murray
jol  
#3 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:35:18 AM(UTC)
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Cheers Murray for the work round

It's really a tool improvement I'm looking for - and i think quite a good logical one

It would save me hours in trimming multiple bulkheads in a boat for example
ttrw  
#4 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:52:28 PM(UTC)
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Hey Murray, I think Jol was being facetious- like a little sarcastic nod in the direction of Tim-land ;) :D

You also may be interested to know (or perhaps not?) that copy & paste (and cut too for that matter) commands all first appeared on the Mac, so no worries there too! :D

But don't worry, I get this all the time at work too. Things like "Guys, do you know if PDF's will work on a Mac?" or "You can't use that mouse cos its got more than one button" etc etc. It just makes me giggle!
zumer  
#5 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:04:11 PM(UTC)
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I've got an older mouse made by a Taiwanese company called A4tech. It's a four-button jobby with two of the buttons programmable to user-assignable toolbars. A4tech gives these toolbars the excellent names "net jump" and "lucky jump". Despite the cheesy names, each of the 14 buttons on the toolbars can be assigned series of keyboard entries, essentially a "script" for each button, so 28 "scripts" in total, able to be altered anytime at will. A4tech's drivers have worked for me with generic mice that they didn't make, too. It's been useful for tasks in apps that don't have scripting. A4tech's a pretty strong company, and I think from memory their mice are compatible with macs, so maybe the scripting thing will work with macs too, Tom.
zumer  
#6 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:28:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post

It's really a tool improvement I'm looking for - and i think quite a good logical one

It would save me hours in trimming multiple bulkheads in a boat for example


Do you mean that you build the hull as a solid and then cut the bulkheads out of that solid, Jol? If that's the case, a different paradigm would be to subtract blocks out of it, making the faces of the block the trim surfaces of adjacent bulkheads. A series of blocks added would be as many trim planes as you need, subtract as one. The pic is a scribble of what I mean.
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jol  
#7 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 3:19:03 AM(UTC)
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thanks Zumer - I appreciate your feedback

However, in my many years of wrestling with complex models in these tools

I already have I thousand workarounds

I'm really looking for tool improvements !!
zumer  
#8 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 6:18:55 AM(UTC)
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Don't take offence, Jol. I understand you're pushing for that, I just don't understand the multiple planes at the once, because surely you'd have to set the plane spacing? There's a windows application, Polycad, that's written by one of your countrymen, Marcus Bole. He's also a naval architect. Although Polycad can derive profiles or stations from a surface with one click to activate, the spacing has to be defined first. How can it be done differently?

murray
jol  
#9 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 9:07:57 AM(UTC)
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Perhaps I'm having a blonde moment, but I'm not sure what you're getting at Murray. Naturally, you would have to set up the spacing .. as I would to subtract blocks
unique  
#10 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 9:49:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps I'm having a blonde moment, but I'm not sure what you're getting at Murray. Naturally, you would have to set up the spacing .. as I would to subtract blocks


Hi Jol,

It would help if you put up a sample (small pls) of roughly what you are looking to do, that way we can all take an interest and try to help you ;)
jol  
#11 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 10:27:07 AM(UTC)
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Paul, Zumer - I guess Tim would have a problem in splitting an object x times
.. If I look at Split in the history tree, you get 2 results. Splitting an object x times would create an ordering dilemma .. ie : to which result part do you apply the next splitting action ?

Say I had a weird shaped chair (.. and it can happen) .. what if I want to break it up into say 20 solids for CNC'ing a prototype. I know I can select the part and split - select the result and split again .. and on and on

All I want to do .. is .. just like the "cut sections" tool .. I wanna be able to select and object and chop it up with multiple infinite planes or surfaces I've thrown thru' the object .. but I want to do it in one operation - not say 20

I think it's a fair ask !

Please don't give me a workaround .. i'm not setting a challenge - I'm just stating an improvement I've wished for thousands of times in the past 10 years using these tools
NickB  
#12 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 10:44:15 AM(UTC)
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Zumer,
If you knew any history you would know that Jol has been using this product since V1. Designed the current tool icons, and probably knows as much about its opperation (not code) what each tool does and all their many quirks as Tim. If there is anybody out there that knows a workaround for an issue it is Jol.
Shark FX 9 build 1143
OS X 9.5
3.6 GHz Core i7, 8GB, GTX 760 2GB

matter.cc
ZeroLengthCurve  
#13 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 12:50:24 PM(UTC)
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Check out Delftship:

http://www.delftship.net/delfts...511125c911505f2fcaeadd04

I use it to get my bulkheas into place. Here is what i do:

-- create hull by points placed into interface (or, modify an existed, user-submitted model)

-- go to the view menu item to add frames ............

-- decide which way to 'throw" the bulkheas (i "throw" away from the moulded side/ forward of the bulkhead mould line forward of amidships, and i "throw" aft of the mould line of a bulkhead aft of amidships.

-- decide on the thickness of any given bulkhead and place points for the bulkheads

-- fair the hull as much as i can do and retain sanity (if you buy the pro version you get automated fairing; in non-pro, you have to keep reviewing the reports giving you speed and resistance calculations information to the point you stop or accept the smoothness)

-- before exporting the model, turn on buttocks, waterlines, etc

-- export as .dxf the model of the hull

-- import into VC the .dxf file and then set starboard frames to stb, port lines to port, and turn off anything that gets into my way

-- use the VC explode line or manually-drawin lines around the bulkheads' frames to stitch the bulkhead.

-- apply materials properties to bulkheads and export VC's reports to use in Lotus 1-2-3 and Lotus Approach (for me, that is; i do NOT use ms abscess nor excel; access is way too overkill, costly, and very non-friendly to end-users who want WYSIWYG reports building and charts-making.)

( If you need scrolling in 1-2-3 and find that XP or 2k or vista killed scrolling, then use Flywheel (which PC Magazine reports on):

go to:

http://www.pcworld.com/download...wnloads/description.html

)

I use numerous layers in VC:

construction, for decks, bulkheads, with port and starboard callouts. Generally, one migth think it makes sense to model one side and then mirror the other. But, i've found that mirroring VC solides turns their mirrors into ACIS solids, and that has, to me, some pluses and minuses.

Enjoy!
jol  
#14 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 1:06:49 PM(UTC)
jol

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Nope - there's no "who can last the longest" competition going on here !

I just know from my experiences struggling with Design CAD .. really since it's inception that some things are always missing that really shouldn't be.

It's always been my intention to convey this to the developers of whatever I'm using so that in the future, people dont hit as many bloody brick walls as I feel I have



For Shark, there are still lots of those walls out there .. for example :

- Navigating quickly to where you really need to be in the feature tree to affect a change PRONTO ! Nigh on impossible

- Setting up close-shot perspective reliably. Nigh on impossible !

- Doing a bunch of renderings based on a list of views you set - whilst you're asleep. Can't do it !

- (Differential) Scale a spline into a new situation by clicking 3 points .. ditto

- Doing symmetrical stuff, splines for starters - heavens, most everything in CAD in symmetrical .. and computers are really really good at symmetry

- Extending curves past boundaries without changing the character of that curve

- Better in-out for SolidWorks

- Setting grid for any kind of vehicular project .. where you typically work mostly to one side of the origin

- Keeping (somewhat) up with the Joneses in terms of rendering

- Not having objects f$%king shoot off the page when I start a new session and the view-rotate-point was 10 feet off to the left for the last drawing I did

- Beautiful cleeeeeaaaaaaan anti-aliased splines : )

- Master/Slave Surface Match (that works) for effective surface patching

- A Silhouette tool without behavioral issues

- An XYZ Triad that isn't always UNDER a dialog box

- Rationalised Dialog boxes .. they're everywhere once you get going - they need a system !

... Did I get carried away there ?
ZeroLengthCurve  
#15 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 1:10:11 PM(UTC)
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Where **VC 5 Pro** will come in handy over VC6 is the surface trim tool. See, in VC6 you cannot (in my limited experience) do surface to surface trim, but you CAN do solid to solid and solid via surface trimming.

I create sideshell stiffeners by using the frames. I create them at some intervals between bulkheads. I create the stiffeners as seperate flanges and webs. I create the web by perpendicularly (perpendicular to the BASELINE, not the curvature of the flange part, (but that has problems if rail-sweeping from the top downward, but it is better to sweep from the baseline up) extending a line inboard. I also create a flange inboard of the sideshell frame curve but also perpendicular to the web, wide enough to be a decent (conforming to available steel shapes commonly available). I then sweep the flange first so i can see the flange when i need to sweep it. Then i sweep the web. I then thicken each. Now, i have the chance to assign properties and get weigths and centers.

Be warned though: if you're designing megayachts or cruiser type hulls, surfacing and thickening the sideshell, bulkheads, decks and stiffeners will grow the original 2 MB file (in my case) to well over 40MB intially and then to 140 MB, for just ***1/3*** of the hull, not even counting the superstructure. I would imagine the file growing to 500MB plus just for a properly thickened, plated model of the 4 items mentioned. Once you get into ladders, toe kicks, bulkhead stiffeners, under deck stiffeners, pipe hanges, models of Wartsila diesels or gas turbines (be sure to comply with their reproduction restrictions, or use hand-made boxes to suffice for the excess detail...), and so on.

Also, if you use Wartsila's engines models, you need AutoCAD to "burst" (rather than explode) the engine blocks. I tried in vain to get VC6 to open some of the models, only to have some VB (or some such visual basic) errors pop up and unceremoniously crash VC6. I had to burst the diesel engine model maybe 4 times, going from 1 block to 19, to some 100 to some 1900 objects. But, after doing so, VC sweetly imported the engine and the model rotates fairly nicely.
jol  
#16 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 1:18:02 PM(UTC)
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Yep - I know about those big files ; )

I think this one ran to over 200 Mb (in 2001)
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#17 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 2:04:22 PM(UTC)
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Wow, that is nice!
jol  
#18 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 2:07:21 PM(UTC)
jol

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It floats ! .. New Zealand Yachts WavePiercer 100' .. it won lots of awards in 2004
ZeroLengthCurve  
#19 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 2:19:55 PM(UTC)
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Another problem with the models of Wartsila's diesels is that although the .dxf files start out as ~ 2MB (blocks), then quickly grow to ~100MB if they don't actually crash VC6. But, if bursted, they are not near that size when saved. I'll have to take another look, though. But if i had not had access to AutoCAD, I probably would have had to use something else to successfully open the .dxf file.
ZeroLengthCurve  
#20 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2008 2:23:07 PM(UTC)
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Hey, THAT'S NOT FAIR, hehehe... that seems a whole lot easier than what i am doing... I'm going to have to try this.
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