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norbertsf  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:30:13 AM(UTC)
norbertsf

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Is there a way to unfold or flatten 3d objects into flat planes for lazercutting in Viacad 6,Pro or Shark? These would be more complex shapes that 6 sided cubes.
( I know FormZ and Rhino can do similar...)

Thanks,

Norbert
zumer  
#2 Posted : Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:23:21 PM(UTC)
zumer

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UltimateUnwrap 3D is around USD 50 and worth it in my opinion. I use VC, so I can't speak for Shark, but I haven't found a quick or simple method of development within VC. Choose the resolution you'd like for the surface approximation, convert to mesh and save as .dxf within VC for format compatibility with UU3D. UU3D is semi automatic, it's not difficult and gives you a lot of control over how the development is laid out, because you can see instantly if there're going to be inconvenient overlaps and rectify. Can do very complex facet layouts as well as simple ones, and VC's resolution selection and variables determine how closely it approximates the curved original, and is pretty exact for faceted objects, except that it doesn't account for edge fold material.
ttrw  
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 5:36:10 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Unfortunately, it (UltimateUnwrap) only works in Windows, so Mac users loose out. Also unwrapping of UV maps is quite a different thing from flattening material for use in laser-cutting applications (a sheet metal application).

Until Shark has a set of sheet metal tools within it, we probably wont see a set of unwrapping tools.

I suppose we should also ask ourselves what we intend Shark to actually do. Is it a games CAD modeller or an industrial design CAD modeller? Both two very different things in my honest opinion.
zumer  
#4 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:54:20 AM(UTC)
zumer

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Yes, it is windows only. http://www.unwrap3d.com/tutorial_unfold.aspx demonstrates unfolding. I have no use for UV mapping, I use it for unfolding. I use it in the here-and-now to produce layouts for duct and tubing junctions. It would be nice if Tim and the Punch crew come up with something to do it within VC or Shark, but right now that doesn't exist, and my customers' orders do. UU3D unwraps (funny that, considering the name) and UV maps, if that's your thing. I don't confuse the two capabilities.
norbertsf  
#5 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:29:35 AM(UTC)
norbertsf

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Yes unwrapping UV maps I could care less. We need something accurate for fabrication like Lamina (unfortunately only PC).
http://laminadesign.com/appsmain.html


Norbert
ttrw  
#6 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:35:48 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Yes, it does to an extent (demonstrate folding)- but it is not the same- trust me. When you bend a sheet, it is good practice to have a bend amount which is added to the overall amount, otherwise you will get gaps. The software that you show, although shows an unfolding principle (of UV mapping) does not demonstrate folding of metal sheet. I mean where does it, in the text mention radii to thickness of metal? It doesn't.

So like I said, don't confuse the two, as they are two entirely different things.

There is a (Windows only) sheet metal CAD tool out there, which the name currently escapes me, but it ain't cheap!

:)
norbertsf  
#7 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:29:46 PM(UTC)
norbertsf

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Lamina addresses the thickness/bending corner issues it seems.

under: thickness/angle correction further down the page...

http://laminadesign.com/index.html
ttrw  
#8 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:39:35 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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If you ever get a chance, look at Solidworks and the way it handles sheet metal bends. Even better is SpaceClaim. Unfortunately again, both of these apps are Windows only.

Tim, has Punch got a copy of Solidworks?
NickB  
#9 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:41:51 PM(UTC)
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Not to defend Shark, but I have done a ton of sheet metal for several clients and found it capable. Capable, not great. That it does not unfold has never been a problem, as I supply the sheet metal vendor with the part file, and they then do the unfolding in solidworks and then use that file to program their CNC press. This process allows me to concentrate on the design, and the vendor then does what they know best to produce the part that I want.

The workflow that I use for modeling sheet metal parts makes extensive use of the shell tool to give me the correct wall thicknesses and bend radiuses. Model the outside, and then shell away all the sides that you don't want. For complex parts make several solids and then boolean them together. You can see an example of some of the sheet metal I have done here: http://forum.punchcad.com/showthread.php?t=1417
Shark FX 9 build 1143
OS X 9.5
3.6 GHz Core i7, 8GB, GTX 760 2GB

matter.cc
norbertsf  
#10 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 2:48:37 PM(UTC)
norbertsf

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ttrw,

You have a point to a degree in terms of the vendors duties. However, in our studio we use mock ups A LOT. And lazercutting/water-jet cutting a small scale model (or perhaps as simple as chipboard or cardboard or wood) is VERY useful. The capability to unfold from a Shark/ViaCAD model ( and plot out )would be very useful.

Norbert
zumer  
#11 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 4:28:46 PM(UTC)
zumer

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Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
Yes, it does to an extent (demonstrate folding)- but it is not the same- trust me. When you bend a sheet, it is good practice to have a bend amount which is added to the overall amount, otherwise you will get gaps. The software that you show, although shows an unfolding principle (of UV mapping) does not demonstrate folding of metal sheet. I mean where does it, in the text mention radii to thickness of metal? It doesn't.

So like I said, don't confuse the two, as they are two entirely different things.

There is a (Windows only) sheet metal CAD tool out there, which the name currently escapes me, but it ain't cheap!

:)


I stated in my initial response that Ultimate Unwrap doesn't provide allowance for bend material allowance, TTRW. You're indulging in selectively inaccurate criticism, since I didn't propose anything regarding UV mapping, that's your offering. Since I use UU3D, because it works, and the cost makes it almost an impulse buy, do you have anything to offer apart from touting Solidworks?
norbertsf  
#12 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 4:32:53 PM(UTC)
norbertsf

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zumer,

I'd like to say thanks for the link. I might try the demo and see how it goes.


Norbert
ttrw  
#13 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 5:08:26 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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we're working on an acoustic ceiling tile at the moment, and as my job is that of a technician, I unfortunately simply don't have the time to sit down and work at VC to get the desired result. Sheet metal tools in Solidworks are super efficient, and I can complete a model in SW in half an hour. Also worth pointing out here, is that most of the sheet metal manufacturing companies that we work with, work from ACAD drawings in 2D anyway- so actually it is I who is expected to have the 3D representation ready and preprepared for both my boss and the manufacturer.

Nick you are a master of Shark, as you have often demonstrated this to us in the past. But SW so much easier to sheet metal in. The company I work for wouldn't mind paying 3000+ for Shark if it had the SM tools In it- but sadly it doesn't. So I agree with Norbert; Shark would be so much better if.....
ttrw  
#14 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 5:34:41 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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Originally Posted by: zumer Go to Quoted Post
since you're talking through your a**e, do you have anything to offer apart from bleating "Solidworks blah blah blah"? There's more than the name of a piece of software that's escaping you, mate.


unwrap3d.com wrote:
Ultimate Unwrap 3D provides a variety of UV mapping projections for different types of situations.


Eh? Why are you being rude and offensive? It's the very first line of that page link that you sent (see above!)!! All I said was don't confuse the two, and I meant it, because they are both, two very different things!

I work (on an industrial contract) in the electronics industry, with sheet metal. We (the company of 5, who I work for, who incidentally I am employed by) are currently taking sheet metal products to manufacture in both India and China, as we speak.

Recently my company ditched buying a seat of Shark in favour of Solidworks because of the sheet metal tools. Personally I would have prefered to have bought Shark, because it runs on a Mac (my platform of choice). I imagine that there are many other Mac users here who would love sheet metal tools running on their Macs.

But that's beside the point. Solidworks (and AutoCAD too) is/ are the industry standard, If you work in the real world, other industry designers and manufacturers demand 99.9% of the time that files are made in Solidworks or AutoCAD, and unfortunately, friend, there is no getting away from it. Period.
unique  
#15 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 5:55:38 PM(UTC)
unique

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Joined: 6/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591

Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post

Recently my company ditched buying a seat of Shark in favour of Solidworks because of the sheet metal tools. Personally I would have prefered to have bought Shark, because it runs on a Mac (my platform of choice). I imagine that there are many other Mac users here who would love sheet metal tools running on their Macs.


Buying software because it runs on a Mac is just plain stupid IMO, buying software for what it can do for your company IS a reason regardless of platforms....like I said Tom serious Cad/Cam is done on PC period !

Quote:

But that's beside the point. Solidworks (and AutoCAD too) is/ are the industry standard, If you work in the real world, other industry designers and manufacturers demand 99.9% of the time that files are made in Solidworks or AutoCAD, and unfortunately, friend, there is no getting away from it. Period.


LOL.......now that is funny !!!! that is one HUUUGEEEE 0.1% mate:D
ttrw  
#16 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:00:08 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
that is one HUUUGEEEE 0.1% mate:D


It certainly is. :)

As for Mac as a viable alternative to PC for industrial CAD?, I'm working on it.........!


:cool:
ttrw  
#17 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:07:07 PM(UTC)
ttrw

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Originally Posted by: unique Go to Quoted Post
Buying software because it runs on a Mac is just plain stupid IMO, buying software for what it can do for your company IS a reason regardless of platforms....like I said Tom serious Cad/Cam is done on PC period !



Well actually Paul, reflecting on this, that isn't 100% true- only in Britain (or perhaps Europe). In America an awful lot of architectural CAD is done on the Mac platform.

edit; I don't quite understand though why you think that buying software for a Mac is stupid? Why would I have a computer if I didn't buy software for it? I'm sorry I don't get that statement.

I do just buy software because it runs on the Mac, because I have yet to find a better alternative on windows (for the particular application that it runs). It's also what you are used to I guess, and I've been using Macs for over 15 years now- I don't think I'm going to change.

I work in industry, and at first my colleagues were very dismissive of me using Mac OS X, but they have realised that in fact it is a good platform, and have left me alone- they're happy, as long as I can do my job- and lets face it, it's only really Office that most people use these days- and that also runs on OS X!

Tom
zumer  
#18 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:05:42 PM(UTC)
zumer

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I apologise for my rudeness, it's removed. UU3D has generic compatibility through .dxf, .stl and 3ds.
tmay  
#19 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:17:02 PM(UTC)
tmay

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 278

Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
Yes, it does to an extent (demonstrate folding)- but it is not the same- trust me. When you bend a sheet, it is good practice to have a bend amount which is added to the overall amount, otherwise you will get gaps. The software that you show, although shows an unfolding principle (of UV mapping) does not demonstrate folding of metal sheet. I mean where does it, in the text mention radii to thickness of metal? It doesn't.

So like I said, don't confuse the two, as they are two entirely different things.

There is a (Windows only) sheet metal CAD tool out there, which the name currently escapes me, but it ain't cheap!

:)


tom,

Most sheetmetal design programs have bend tables that map to bend radii, material thickness and material type and condition. I'm guessing that is what you are speaking of. NOTE: fab references its table(s), not yours

I have seen some video tutorials on youtube for both Pro/e and Solidworks that give a demonstration of highend sheetmetal design. I agree with you that while you can just give the fab the model, I would have more confidence if there was both a model and a flat pattern, as there can be alternatives for rips, bends, and joints that may not be to my design intent.

Pro/e sheetmetal video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr39-6VhAzU

the other tom
unique  
#20 Posted : Monday, December 1, 2008 2:22:51 AM(UTC)
unique

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Joined: 6/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591

Originally Posted by: ttrw Go to Quoted Post
edit; I don't quite understand though why you think that buying software for a Mac is stupid? Why would I have a computer if I didn't buy software for it? I'm sorry I don't get that statement.


You got me wrong Tom.....What I said was "buying software because it runs on a Mac is just plain stupid IMO, buying software for what it can do for your company IS a reason regardless of platforms"

Quote:
Recently my company ditched buying a seat of Shark in favour of Solidworks because of the sheet metal tools. Personally I would have prefered to have bought Shark, because it runs on a Mac (my platform of choice)


So even though Shark is still buggy and nowhere near as productive as SW for your application (sheet metal) you would buy something because you are familiar with the platform :rolleyes::rolleyes:...forgive me but isnt that a wee bit daft?

There was a phase when I was using CAM moved from VMS, Linux, Windows. Personally I hated Linux but the software was mega stable and never gave trouble....hence why your firm chooses to run SW on PC ;)

Quote:
I do just buy software because it runs on the Mac, because I have yet to find a better alternative on windows (for the particular application that it runs). It's also what you are used to I guess, and I've been using Macs for over 15 years now- I don't think I'm going to change.

I work in industry, and at first my colleagues were very dismissive of me using Mac OS X, but they have realised that in fact it is a good platform, and have left me alone- they're happy, as long as I can do my job- and lets face it, it's only really Office that most people use these days- and that also runs on OS X!

Tom


I dont dispute Mac is a good platform and it certainly has style, I just hope it manages to keep M$ honest in the future.....apologies for the OT Norbert:o
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