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jdi000  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, July 1, 2008 6:25:52 PM(UTC)
jdi000

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Tim

The startup.dat does an excellent job with layers, dimension styles, views, but it will not seem to retain a default text size. I even tried the vc3pref.ini file but the text keeps defaulting to .889, on my one system and 1.163 on another. Any suggestion to retain a text height?


Thanks

Jason
Viacad v6 784
Vista/XP
Windows 11, 10
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Tim Olson  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:21:10 AM(UTC)
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>>The startup.dat does an excellent job with layers, dimension styles, views,but it will not seem to retain a default text size. I even tried the vc3pref.ini file but the text keeps defaulting to .889, on my one system and 1.163 on another. Any suggestion to retain a text height?

>>I even tried the vc3pref.ini
:)

Text height is not saved with the file. It's a session setting which as you correctly noted is saved in vc3pref.ini. We've been internally discussing whether these should be session or file dependent settings. We're in a heated internal debate, comments appreciated. WRT units, we're leaning to making this file dependent.

>>vc3pref.ini file but the text keeps defaulting to .889,
There was bug in 784 that was corrected in 786 regarding preserving the text height from session to session. It was ignoring the value in vc3pref.ini.


Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
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Tem  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 1:26:26 AM(UTC)
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I think an inspector box/palette would be a good solution for the dimensions and all kinds of text. Look at Apple's Pages program as a reference. Maybe this approach is not very cross platform, but it is a Mac platform GUI nicety. I can imagine even placing several of the current palettes into an inspector palette. I really like the way they work in Pages, as they tend to be relative to the context and take far less space and yet can be moved out of the way as needed just like any other palette. So, in this context, one can tick an option box making all DIM text in a document be the same size and style or leave it to the user to define DIM text sizes as needed. This approach could also work for DIM objects, like arrows and such, and incorporate options like text anti-aliasing and those details. Currently, I am at times reminded of the archaic AUTOCAD class that I had to use back in college (1994-5?), where the user needs to dig through menus to some dialog box and eventually make a few selections for plotter pen colors, it was painful then and there are better ways to do it now. I vote for rethinking the DIM and text controls/options. Thanks for your time!
Tem
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jdi000  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 6:31:25 AM(UTC)
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Tim

[FONT="Times New Roman"][COLOR="DarkGreen"]>>>>>>We've been internally discussing whether these should be session or file dependent settings. We're in a heated internal debate, comments appreciated. WRT units, we're leaning to making this file dependent.>>>>>>>>[/COLOR][/FONT]

IMO Having things file dependant has a positive aspect and has more positives than negatives where users could save blank files kinda like the startup.dat. Have a blank file (vc3 or sfx) setup for each type of file someone may need save one for mm, one for inches, one for fractions, one for arch, one for survey/plot, one for presentations/illustrations, etc. Having a start part is common in many softwares, and compaines I have worked for, as long as I can be confident that all my settings will be saved and executed when I open a file, I have no problem creating start files for each type I need. This is really no different than having a templates set up to import for a drawing. I would think its eaiser to control units,fonts,dim settings, pen settings if its is controlled on the file level vs session?
Having settings by session dosen't give the flexibility of a start part you have to change all the settings everytime rather than just starting a file.

Does any of this tie to dimension settings being perserved when you load a non-native or native file? IMO when a file native or not native is loaded the dimension setting units should be preserved in the file by the original settings (units). Or is a case of the setting being applied after the file is loaded?

I sure hope others jump in as i would like to hear more opinions!

and Thanks!! Tim for taking the time to listen to user input, and opinions

Thanks
Jason
Windows 11, 10
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Gary  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:35:49 AM(UTC)
Gary

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I agree the user should be able to control all the defaults, fonts, style etc. when opening a new file.

Each user has there own set of standards and styles (or company standard) and the program should help make this more achievable not cumbersome.

I do agree that it would be great to see some consolidation and reworking of menus & palettes for controlling text & dimensions etc.

While this consolidation could occur in a palette, my vote/suggestion would be to also utilize the existing tool bar across the top of the screen and have it be modal.

I often feel the toolbar is underutilized given it's size. Following is a brief outline of how the toolbar could include quick access to many more attributes of drawing entities:

What if there were more attributes available to edit in the data entry fields of the top fixed tool bar. What if when I select a line, in addition to x, y, z, length & angle I could continue to tab into fields for color and weight. Once in the new fields, the up and down (or left and right arrows) could toggle through weights and colors (no modifier key required).

This could then easily (and logically) play out to:

1. when a text object is selected in addition to the text field being displayed, size, color and perhaps style are displayed. Tab into a field and arrow key to toggle up down through options.

2. when a dimension is selected in addition to the text field being displayed, size, color and perhaps style and arrowhead are displayed. Tab into a field and arrow key to toggle up down through options.

The "color" field could be limited to the default colors and perhaps display color swatch instead of name of color ( or both?). The "arrowhead" field could be graphical displaying an image of the arrowhead style.

Thanks for the consideration,

Gary
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ttrw  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:44:22 AM(UTC)
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Tem wrote:
Look at Apple's Pages program as a reference.


Agreed.

Okay. The following attachments showing this inspector are;

1. MacDraft.

2. Pages.

3. Intaglio

4. Standard font box in Pages/ Intaglio

No 4; this last one, I personally still like boring old unicode in my orthographic drawings- perhaps this too is an ACAD hangover?! Either way, the current way of choosing fonts via that huge list, is a little daunting. It would be nice to be able to have a simple search box for a font, like you get in Pages or Intaglio. Macdraft, irritatingly also uses that great big menu list too. MacDraft still looks like one is navigating through OS 9.x, so perhaps this behaviour isn't very OS X? Don't know :confused:

The text box is also called up by pressing apple-T (for text). Apple-T at present is 'Shade now' in VC. Since apple-T is a standard for most cocoa apps, howabout apple-shift-T for 'shade now'? (Sorry I don't know what it is for PC)

FWIW, Shark/ VC in Windows already looks very Macintosh anyway! AND what is done can only be a far better improvement on Solidworks for one anyway, because Solidworks handling of this is atrocious :eek: lol!
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ttrw  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:54:51 AM(UTC)
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Tim Olson wrote:

Text height is not saved with the file. It's a session setting which as you corrected noted is saved in vc3pref.ini. We've been internally discussing whether these should be session or file dependent settings. We're in a heated internal debate, comments appreciated. WRT units, we're leaning to making this file dependent.


Tim, can you elaborate a little more? "Session" or "file dependent"? What exactly do you mean by these? (sorry if I am being dumb!)
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Tim Olson  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:18:13 AM(UTC)
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>>where the user needs to dig through menus to some dialog box and >>eventually make a few selections for plotter pen colors, it was painful then >>and there are better ways to do it now.

Agree. We're investigating some changes to the UI that would let us remove setting object attributes from the menu bar.


Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
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Tim Olson  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:54:54 AM(UTC)
Tim Olson

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Gary wrote:
I agree the user should be able to control all the defaults, fonts, style etc. when opening a new file.

Each user has there own set of standards and styles (or company standard) and the program should help make this more achievable— not cumbersome.

I do agree that it would be great to see some consolidation and reworking of menus & palettes for controlling text & dimensions etc.

While this consolidation could occur in a palette, my vote/suggestion would be to also utilize the existing tool bar across the top of the screen and have it be modal.

I often feel the toolbar is underutilized given it's size. Following is a brief outline of how the toolbar could include quick access to many more attributes of drawing entities:

What if there were more attributes available to edit in the data entry fields of the top fixed tool bar. What if when I select a line, in addition to x, y, z, length & angle I could continue to tab into fields for color and weight. Once in the new fields, the up and down (or left and right arrows) could toggle through weights and colors (no modifier key required).

This could then easily (and logically) play out to:

1. when a text object is selected in addition to the text field being displayed, size, color and perhaps style are displayed. Tab into a field and arrow key to toggle up down through options.

2. when a dimension is selected in addition to the text field being displayed, size, color and perhaps style and arrowhead are displayed. Tab into a field and arrow key to toggle up down through options.

The "color" field could be limited to the default colors and perhaps display color swatch instead of name of color ( or both?). The "arrowhead" field could be graphical displaying an image of the arrowhead style.

Thanks for the consideration,

Gary


Gary,

That is pretty much my current line of thinking as well. I'm thinking of moving Pen, Text, & Dimensions from the menu bar to the tool bar area as context sensitive icons/edit fields. In fact, we had an early V6 prototype where we added attributes to the tool bar. (Jol, want to chime in here, you played around with it)

I find that I would like to be able to immediately see my attributes (attributes to be used for new objects created, attributes currently assigned and modifiable) without going to a hierachial menu or dialog box.

Inspectors are very nice, but do take up screen space. It would be great to keep the drawing area free of dialog boxes. This is a pretty big change in the UI so comments appreciated.

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
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ttrw  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 10:12:04 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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Tim Olson wrote:

Inspectors are very nice, but do take up screen space. It would be great to keep the drawing area free of dialog boxes.


This is also very true, and I am always moaning about Intaglio on this book.

What about all this space (see attached image). Is that xyz mouse location readout (top right-hand of screen) that necessary?
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jdi000  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 10:32:20 AM(UTC)
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Tim Olson wrote:
Gary,

That is pretty much my current line of thinking as well. I'm thinking of moving Pen, Text, & Dimensions from the menu bar to the tool bar area as context sensitive icons/edit fields. In fact, we had an early V6 prototype where we added attributes to the tool bar. (Jol, want to chime in here, you played around with it)

I find that I would like to be able to immediately see my attributes (attributes to be used for new objects created, attributes currently assigned and modifiable) without going to a hierachial menu or dialog box.

Inspectors are very nice, but do take up screen space. It would be great to keep the drawing area free of dialog boxes. This is a pretty big change in the UI so comments appreciated.

Tim



Definitely better than being in pulldown menus, and seeing what the current attributes are is great.

It would still be beneficial to add all the modifiable attributes in the object info dialog box esp for text, and dimensions, its still very easy to rt click on and object and pop open the dialog box and be able to change all the attributes in one place

The key here being all modifiable attributes available in one toolbar or info box ie the object info box and in the tool bar area both would be great.

Thanks
Jason
Windows 11, 10
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ttrw  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:02:40 AM(UTC)
ttrw

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jdi000 wrote:

The key here being all modifiable attributes available in one toolbar or info box ie the object info box and in the tool bar area both would be great.



As in, like a box down one side of the screen?

This set up is very popular right now, but again, this setup uses screen space. Fine if you have a cinema display, not so good with a notebook.

Perhaps there should be a system where values in boxes appear semi-transparent across the entire screen- at a push of a button- a bit like a jet fighter plane cockpit, using the power of Open GL and Quartz? Two key presses show all the different boxes, and at that time, one can enter data etc, click these key presses again, and the info dissapears (fades out) leaving just the vital input areas right at the top part of the screen?

(Tim, you wanted a radical overhaul right? :rolleyes: ;) )
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ZeroLengthCurve  
#13 Posted : Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:39:38 PM(UTC)
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Maybe this is me, but in case it's not me....

I've noticed that taking AutoCAD dwgs/dxfs and "Ctrl+Dragging" them stretches autocad dimensions, pipe "S" symbols (the one drafters like to put in the cross section/plan view of a pipe to reduce chance of confusion over whether the circle is pipe or is a raised feature, etc...).

Is that just me?

As for fonts, in dimensions, I too have experienced fonts needing to be individually sized. I'll check again and see if I'm skipping a step, but I seem to have each and every placed dimension coming in at some very small decimal number. I know I can use the eye dropper, but again, I'm probably misusing the standards settings dialog...

Oh, and I TOO look forward to VC 6 Pro... VC is an awesome tease/r, has a lovely price, and is easily worth a bit more. But, your marketing team is on track that it should induce people to upgrade. The surfacing and solid tools drugged/dragged me away from TurboCAD, even tho in the first 2 months of TurboCAD I was loath to "fiddle with" ViaCAD tho I'd already paid the $96 for it. I figured I'd use the best of each, and dump all into TC, but I think I'll just adapt to VC's GUI, (hoping that the engineers will offer a more manageable floating/movable tool bars interface). But, DO use TC at times to rip out space-hogging AC dwg/dxf paperspaces. Amazing how some drawings have tens of thousands of itty-bitty, performance-ravaging lines, weird polylines, and shading/blocks/hatches...
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