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a.wieneke  
#1 Posted : Sunday, July 26, 2020 6:02:32 AM(UTC)
a.wieneke

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Hello,

i'm using ViaCad Pro since Version 5.And i teach it for goldsmiths.
in the last time i upgraded to ViaCad pro 11 and to Shark 12. These to versions i cannot teach/ offer :-(
Bothe versions are crashing very often, so i'm still using ViaCad Pro 10 with Powerpack.
This weekend i startet to look at FormZ.
The tutorials are very interesting for me.
Is somebody here with experiences in FormZ?

Sorry , i ask here, but i read here since many years and still feel familiar with this forum and Punch/Viacad.
viele Grüße
Andreas

http://www.wieneke.biz
ViaCAD Pro: 5,6,7,8,9,10,11
SharkCad 12
OS X 10.15.4

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GARLIC on 7/26/2020(UTC)
magicart  
#2 Posted : Monday, July 27, 2020 2:39:32 AM(UTC)
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Hello a.wieneke,

the main problem with other CAD is I couldn't find highly advanced software combined with simplicity and precise "model to sheet" module similar to Shark. From the other hand I'never found such buggied software like Shark. Me and Shark is a very rough relationship - I love it and I hate it at the same time. I've tried to find similar softwares but with no success. Fusion 360 is horrible for editing drawings (You cannot do anything with projected lines), Rhino is perfect for 3d moddeling but 3d to 2d and creating sheets takes too long (and drawings are no associated with model). SolidWorks, SolidEdges - the price. The only alternative I found is IronCAD it's quite easy to use and very advanced software but the price is higher comparing to shark.

Magicart

Edited by user Monday, July 27, 2020 7:58:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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GARLIC on 7/27/2020(UTC)
cad'n'stuff  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:16:31 AM(UTC)
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Some CAD's have a cheaper basic version (ZW3D, Solid Edge,...). Depending on what features you need, this might be just what you want. Unfortunately, these programs are usually stripped off all advanced features.

The last time i tried FormZ, it was even more buggy than Viacad. However, that was a few years ago, so it might be different now.

Unfortunately, Fusion 360 has become so poular, that it basically annihilated all competition in the low price segment.
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magicart on 7/28/2020(UTC)
a.wieneke  
#4 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2020 3:20:06 AM(UTC)
a.wieneke

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Thank you.
in the testversion FormZ is so far more stabil then Shark 12.
Maybe i should still use ViaCad 10 and stop to be unhappy with the useless upgrades to version 11 and shark 12

What do you think about TurboCad, is there any different ?

some years ago i tried ZW3D, but it is a little oversized. And my CAM (Deskproto) is fine for me.
viele Grüße
Andreas

http://www.wieneke.biz
ViaCAD Pro: 5,6,7,8,9,10,11
SharkCad 12
OS X 10.15.4

bbuxton  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 7:45:18 AM(UTC)
bbuxton

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Joined: 2/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 31

Originally Posted by: a.wieneke Go to Quoted Post
Thank you.
in the testversion FormZ is so far more stabil then Shark 12.
Maybe i should still use ViaCad 10 and stop to be unhappy with the useless upgrades to version 11 and shark 12

What do you think about TurboCad, is there any different ?

some years ago i tried ZW3D, but it is a little oversized. And my CAM (Deskproto) is fine for me.


I have used both applications for what seems like forever (Though I tried the trial for SharkCad pro 12 and decided to stick with 10). Neither is suitable for teaching the next generation of designers as they belong to a bygone age. FormZ won't do a rail revolve and misses a lot of the tools that are in ViaCad and SharkCAD pro.
SharkCad, TurboCad, Cobalt, FormZ, Rhino, Vectorworks etc are all from the same generation of CAD that tried to define the midmarket in the 1990's and early 2000's. With the exception of Rhino, all have serious performance issues and are not at all optimised for current hardware. To convey current workflows and make a good fit in the Maker Space, Autodesk Fusion 360 is well priced has access to generative design tech, can create simple assemblies and has T-Splines. Rhino3D comes in a close second purely for keeping up with current hardware and providing a good toolset in what I think is a horrible interface. Most other options are too expensive for starting out. For drawings I do like ZW3D and IronCad though.

I rambled sorry
Forget FormZ! Either try Fusion 360 or Rhino for best price-performance.
Fusion 360 is the better of the two for Sheet Documentation.



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murray  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 9:27:11 PM(UTC)
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What are the performance issues that you think detract from them? What difference do you think that makes in comparison to programs that you don't think have them? Are ZW3D and IronCAD among those?
bbuxton  
#7 Posted : Thursday, August 06, 2020 12:00:17 AM(UTC)
bbuxton

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t tghe start of
Originally Posted by: murray Go to Quoted Post
What are the performance issues that you think detract from them? What difference do you think that makes in comparison to programs that you don't think have them? Are ZW3D and IronCAD among those?


Typically performance bottlenecks are when performing surface blends (this is true in most CAD applications but worse in older ones that have not received much more than the minimum cosmetic updates). In formZ, surface operations can be quite bad and frequently introduces errors that are difficult to resolve later.
Similar operations in Rhino are much more responsive, in Fusion 360 they are good too. I think the original post was for Jewelry making and generating sheet drawings. ZW3D and IronCad do not have the same performance issues but they are considerably more expensive. Both ZW3D and IronCad have fantastic model to sheet functionality.
FormZ draft layout has all kinds of problems, with issues left unresolved for years. It is much worse than SharkCAD's model to sheet. FormZ and SharkCad are good for certain things, but most of their appeal is for people late in their careers that are already comfortable in the applications. I would never recommend them to students or people at the start of their careers.

I used FormZ and SharkCad together for a long time because they were a good fit for the work I had. FormZ has useful terrain modelling tools and general workflows for simple architectural forms, Shark I used for creating airfoils and ship hulls. My work was only conceptual, so I did not need more than basic drafting for presentations or occasional patent drawings etc. Now my work is changing fast, I have looked at a lot of alternatives. Very rarely will a single application cover every need. ZW3D is such a rare good all-rounder, but for now I have adopted Fusion 360 (instead of upgrading to SharkCad pro 12). It seems to be a good choice now as I focus on smaller 'maker' projects.

Edited by user Thursday, August 06, 2020 12:02:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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murray  
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 06, 2020 11:07:33 PM(UTC)
murray

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Regarding your complaint that FormZ won't do rail revolve, I investigated it quite a few years ago when Bonzai, now FormZ jnr., Was released, Somewhere in there they gave closed lofts continuity through the first/last profile, which is notionally an analogous tool to rail revolve.
bbuxton  
#9 Posted : Saturday, August 08, 2020 5:00:36 AM(UTC)
bbuxton

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Posts: 31

Originally Posted by: murray Go to Quoted Post
Regarding your complaint that FormZ won't do rail revolve, I investigated it quite a few years ago when Bonzai, now FormZ jnr., Was released, Somewhere in there they gave closed lofts continuity through the first/last profile, which is notionally an analogous tool to rail revolve.

Not really a complaint. Rail revolve is useful and lofting to a point, boundary sweeps and other ways of attempting to replicate the function is not the same. FormZ and SharkCad complement each other very well and between the two I could accomplish most tasks. There are areas that are a disaster though, especially importing and exporting parts from other applications. If importing does not break hierarchies and part names, export certainly will.
Most of my frustration is with SharkCad.
Both FormZ and SharkCad are supposed to be budget solutions for CAD that also enjoy a presence on MacOs. Overtime development for both applications has been fairly disappointing and this shortfall has made both applications a poor choice for new adopters. SharkCad Pro is damned expensive for what you get- $2500. - Seriously it is 2.5 times the cost of Rhino which has far better market penetration, a deeper toolset and an enormous plugin ecosystem! Rhino still sees pretty substantial development (it is slow but the paid upgrades are every few years not every year) The cost performance for Rhino clearly reveals SharkCad for what it is.
Additionally for about $500 or so more than SharkCad pro 12 you can get ZW3D standard, it does not take long looking through the features in ZW3D to get an idea of what you should be expecting from a SharkCad pro license.
So as the ViaCad and SharkCad product lines join the TurboCad line up you end up with a staggering bloated array of mismanaged products.
Neither FormZ nor SharkCad has much of a future. However, FormZ does at least sit at a good price point, if you accept that it is not going to evolve much if at all, in the future.

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