logo
NOTICE:  This is the new PunchCAD forum. You should have received an email with your new password around August 27, 2014. If you did not, or would like it reset, simply use the Lost Password feature, and enter Answer as the security answer.
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
ZeroLengthCurve  
#1 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 4:00:43 PM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 5/15/2008(UTC)
Posts: 985

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 31 time(s) in 22 post(s)
I'm going nuts, i think.

In VC6 2D/3D and in VCPro 6 (835) I can create solids and extruded polygons and obtain 3D surface objects and then obtain volume for the space insidide the surface.

However, I can NOT for the life of me -- using Add Surface or Join Surface -- get a "Surfaces Completely Closed" object to be a volume measurable object. Given that message, i assume i can safely assume that there are no intolerable gaps. And, i am not necessarily looking for solids. I am trying to create geometry that will be volumetric, and of course, i don't want to refer to geometry course material except for cursory checks. I am hoping and expecting that i can use the application to obtain volumes and therefore use them in the BOMs i will generated. Please tell me i'm doing something wrong. The reproducibility is simple (so i don't have to upload a file): create a box using lines, then surface each side, then join or add the surfaces. I will next try creating 6 separate surfaces independent of the construction lines and then join/combine those.

With Add Surface, there is no message saying the 6 sides of the cube are completely closed. At least with Join Surface there is a message.

This is very important for me to be able to obtain volumes

Also, in a quick test, i found that measuring the volume of two spheres sharing the same center but with different diameters produces the sum. That's fine in some cases, but i wish there were a check box that says something like:

-- "Subtract from largest, containing sphere/volumetric object the summed volume of the smaller, contained spheres/volumetric objects (and calculate weights/centers/moments based on assigned material properties)?"

-- "Sum the volume of all the */volumentric objects and the largest, containing v.o.?"

-- "Sum the volume of the selected v.o.s, excluding from sum any de-selected/non-selected v.o.s otherwise contained in the largest v.o.?"
ZeroLengthCurve  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 4:12:48 PM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 5/15/2008(UTC)
Posts: 985

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 31 time(s) in 22 post(s)
I just created a new box, removed the links, confirmed doing so, and then used the join surfaces tool and received confirmation by "Surfaces completely closed". In the menu, under Verify, "volume" is dimmed out.

I checked the object; no errors in it. I checked for interferences, and there are none.
Tim Olson  
#3 Posted : Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:32:05 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,446
United States

Was thanked: 498 time(s) in 352 post(s)
If it comes up again, post your example file. Example files really help me figure out what's going on.

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
ZeroLengthCurve  
#4 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 1:15:50 PM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 5/15/2008(UTC)
Posts: 985

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 31 time(s) in 22 post(s)
Say, Tim,

Are you about to make me feel elated :D? Are you hinting that it is indeed possible via ViaCAD to join surfaces and obtain volume information for enclosed surfaces without making/shelling/doing booleans on solids? If so, that would be (for me) a KILLER feature, one for which i'd easly/hands down throw in another $50 on top of any future upgrade price...
Tim Olson  
#5 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 1:37:39 PM(UTC)
Tim Olson

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,446
United States

Was thanked: 498 time(s) in 352 post(s)
ZeroLengthCurve,

Try using the Stitch tool in ViaCAD Pro. This will take a collection of surfaces and create a closed solid. Your surfaces need to form a water tight body if you later want to calculate a volume.


Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
unique  
#6 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 2:01:55 PM(UTC)
unique

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 6/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591

Originally Posted by: ZeroLengthCurve Go to Quoted Post
Say, Tim,

Are you about to make me feel elated :D? Are you hinting that it is indeed possible via ViaCAD to join surfaces and obtain volume information for enclosed surfaces without making/shelling/doing booleans on solids? If so, that would be (for me) a KILLER feature, one for which i'd easly/hands down throw in another $50 on top of any future upgrade price...


Solids "are" only surfaces but closed?? May I ask if you are designing & creating these surfaces in VC or some other package ??. The mechanism is already there for stitching surfaces into a solid (providing they have watertight edges)so that a volume can be calc'd. With sound modeling practices this should give you the result you need, that is if you can build the surfaces inside VC :eek:

You can always send donations $50 to Tim @ Punch for already having this!:D:D
ZeroLengthCurve  
#7 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 5:14:45 PM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 5/15/2008(UTC)
Posts: 985

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 31 time(s) in 22 post(s)
Hehehehe...

(Sorry, but this is yet again a long post...)

I must've misread the tool use. My first baby steps involved taking geometry to surface as a cube hiding/deleting the lines. I stitched the surfaces, and got the message that ""Surfaces completely closed"". At that point i selected/highlighted the geometry and went to the menu, but found "volume" dimmed out. I'll check again. It DID work for solids created from the ViaCAD tools, but not for the surfaces.

Still, tho, my main concern is that i will have this model representing a naval cruiser. Even tho i won't immediately deduct the volume used by longitudinal, transverse and sideshell stiffeners and other things in the tanks, i'm concerned that creating a solid out of a volume that is some 40'wide, 8' tall, and maybe 40-50' long will take vastly longer than what i've made as solids so far: sideshell/hull plating that is 1/2" thick, by 40', by 40'.

I guess i'm spoiled by adverts of laser pointers that ship check engineers can use to do 3D modeling of container ships' holds and tanks and engine spaces. Just mount the thing, turn it on, and follow the directions to let the thing fire/beam the surfaces and digitize the compartment. I was hoping that CAD software would just recognize the drawn surfaces and say "whether or not fully closed, this is the volume if filled 100%; leaks not accounted for."

The 100% enclosed volume/watertight (aside from some small tolerancing) is too stringent. A 5-gallon can with the top sawed off is still a 5-gallon can; it'll just spill if disturbed, but for practical purposes of description or repurchasing, it would be called a 5-gallon can. Spatial/ACIS need to be less critical/demanding/academic/purist (if indeed that's what their being). If i use the architectural tools to draw a floor plan, the footage is not diminished by presense of stair cases or windows or even a hole in the floor (unless the hole is deducted?)

(Sorry, but this is yet again a long post...)
ZeroLengthCurve  
#8 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 5:19:07 PM(UTC)
ZeroLengthCurve

Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 5/15/2008(UTC)
Posts: 985

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 31 time(s) in 22 post(s)
I'll try to create another model of the "assembled cube" and if it fails, i'll post the model critique/inspection. But, i chose a cube because it offered the least room for error on my part (as opposed to attempting the test with over 40 parts needing to be stitched or joined).

(whew, a shorter one, hehehe)...
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.