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mikeschn  
#1 Posted : Thursday, December 2, 2010 5:58:42 AM(UTC)
mikeschn

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I found an interesting article about the evolution of CAD. You might want to read it here: http://www.deskeng.com/articles/aaazer.htm

Meanwhile this caught my eye.

Even Mike Riddle, founder of Evolution Computing and a programmer instrumental in the earliest release of AutoCAD, doesn™t see much viability in low-cost CAD. When businesses start spending money on things like CAD after a recession, they start with low-cost CAD for the non-critical seats, but weaknesses in implementation and interoperability eventually drive businesses back to full-boat™ systemsnot for capability but for reliability.
ViaCAD Pro 12 on Windows; Viacad Pro 14 on Mac
zumer  
#2 Posted : Thursday, December 2, 2010 7:17:43 AM(UTC)
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That last comment's what you'd expect from somebody who's got an interest in pushing that view, Mike. Remember when a Wang word processor operator was a vocational technician? Remember when ads for secretary/receptionists asked for certified aptitude for WordPerfect or Lotus? What is "CAD", anyway? We model, we draft, we test relationships and virtually test results in the same way that wordsmiths word-process. I downloaded Autodesk's Inventor Fusion "technology preview" (teaser) and it's a pretty nice piece of kit. According to Deelip Menezes, it is going to be aimed at the "DIY" market, which is the dismissive term that Autodesk apply to PunchCAD, TurboCAD, Alibre and others down here in the bleachers. What's interesting about that is that Fusion has pretty comprehensive interop filters, even ParaSolids and Catia. If Autodesk is saying "here's our "DIY" candidate, you can exchange with everything all the way up to Catia with it", they're not expecting to be ridiculed, or to be seriously taken to task over reliability. The other thing about that is: Fusion might be the new low-water-mark for high-end interop, and that's pretty hilarious because Autodesk's the big dog who's fought to keep .dwg proprietary for all these years.
mikeschn  
#3 Posted : Friday, December 3, 2010 5:34:35 AM(UTC)
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Zumer,

I can certainly understand his motivation for saying that.

On the other hand I can relate to it, because I have tried TurboCAD off and on for many years, and can never work in it for more than a couple hours because my frustration level gets too high, because the program is so buggy.

Tim has done a much better job than TurboCAD getting rid of a bunch of bugs... but yes, I know, some still remain!

Mike...

P.S. Do you have a link to that Fusion article?
ViaCAD Pro 12 on Windows; Viacad Pro 14 on Mac
zumer  
#4 Posted : Friday, December 3, 2010 6:57:45 AM(UTC)
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I've used TurboCAD for the past dozen years, and I don't find it obstructively buggy. I find some of its tools have scope and subtlety that's still beyond ViaCAD and Shark, but VC and Shark use features and associativity better, so they're more complementary than competitive. They have fundamental differences in UI: so much of PunchCAD's power is comparatively unseen, parametric surfaces via .spline import, formula evaluation and polynomials via the data input entry boxes and so on. In TC, everything gets a toolbar button.
Deelip's article is here: http://www.deelip.com/?p=4953.
Tem  
#5 Posted : Monday, December 6, 2010 2:46:35 AM(UTC)
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@zumer "...Everything gets a toolbar button?" I will be nice and say that it seems complicated for lack of a better/nicer word. By the way, I think your comment about the UI advantage of Shark being in its subtlety is a good point in that it seems to containerize functionality, making it relative to the tool, not just another pretty leaf to stare at on a tree in a forest, and so on.
zumer  
#6 Posted : Monday, December 6, 2010 9:02:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tem Go to Quoted Post
@zumer "...Everything gets a toolbar button?" I will be nice and say that it seems complicated for lack of a better/nicer word. By the way, I think your comment about the UI advantage of Shark being in its subtlety is a good point in that it seems to containerize functionality, making it relative to the tool, not just another pretty leaf to stare at on a tree in a forest, and so on.


I used to draw technical illustrations on paper. I didn't know it at the time, but I'm not an artist. I was drawing mechanisms by sketching CSG. As a result, CSG CAD was something I knew how to do long before I had access to a computer, and when I first had access to domestic PC and CAD, the programs weren't CSG, most weren't 3D, they had wireframe graphics and command line interfaces. I learned all of those things to get to this point, and TurboCAD's no more complicated than any of these. If you're starting from cold, perhaps. It took me maybe 12 months to become "competent" with PunchCAD, previous CAD experience notwithstanding. CAD might be becoming more intutive, but it's not genetically coded or taught like a mother tongue.
Tem  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, December 8, 2010 12:52:20 AM(UTC)
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I only had a few "drawing board" drawing classes in a community/junior college. I had the fine experience of smelling the cat pee, I mean traditional blue prints process, but only in a class room. As soon as I was accepted into a 4 year state Uni, 2D seemed to vanish. I went from acad 12 to Alias studio in 1 year (wireframe to shaded complex surfacing). Advanced surfacing, nearly realistic 3D rendering on under powered unix workstations ( typical edu funding). Then, back down to earth, my first real career using Rhino 1 thru 3 and Pro-E wildfire 3. Rhino has had a lot of unique tools and options that made it the in-between solution provider when Pro_E couldn't do something easily or at all, or the fact that the firm I worked for didn't want to by Alias studio. Now I use SharkFX for some things and SW for stuff that some mechanical designers and engineers require for interoperability, I play around with the Rhino for Mac OS X once in a while. RHino is quick, like Shark, but its not a feature based solids and surface modeler so its a lot of manual work. Funny thing is that SW can be a pain to set up and make changes with too, but the way it can do a few things (history tree) can make some changes blazing fast.
I think generating a 3D form takes pre-vizualization skills and building it requires some strategy, as well as anticipation to allow for flexibility in a design. 3D forms are complicated, and there is a lot of functionality integrated into these modern, middle tier CAD systems that can boggle the mind.
I am not so sure that 3D CAD will ever become intuitive and I am not sure that it ever needs to be. There is a place for cli in the graphics interface, just not always out in front.
I think my ideal cad system would be "fuzzy", in that I could rough out an idea quickly and add information to areas, then refine the form as needed until it is optimal. It seems like a few of the CAD systems I have used require that a design be nearly optimal from the start, rather than take into consideration the messy process of actually creating a final product.
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