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Kevin Quigley  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 7:29:22 AM(UTC)
Kevin Quigley

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The Net surface is a great tool but it has a big drawback. The M and N curves have to touch each other. This is easy to do at the end locations but well nigh impossible to do inside the shape when you use a the control point spline. The only way I can get this to work is to use the spline by point and make sure the points touch the crossing curve. This is OK in theory but in practice very limiting.

Is there a way to make M and N curves touch so the Net Surface tool will work? The constraints don't seem to do anything about this. Better yet would be a tool that ensures that the curves STAY joined when you edit the main drive curves.
jol  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 12:03:48 PM(UTC)
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Once again Mr Quigley - I agree 100% with you !

well not quite ... actually the M and N's don't have to match exactly

if there is a gap (within an allowed tolerance) the surface is formed half way between

that's how I see it here anyway

I have never understood why Tim will not see that a "Match Points" tool is required for just such intersects. Match point would ensure an intersect and hold a constraint there, so the 2 points cannot fall apart when one line is edited.

Perhaps Tim sees this as part of some possible future work on 3D constraints - I'm not sure

Meanwhile sadly surfacing in Shark is not making the strides forward that solids have in recent years
Tim Olson  
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 12:23:40 AM(UTC)
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>>The M and N curves have to touch each other.

In builds prior to 960, they needed to be within 2 inches. I changed it to 20 in 961. Below is a video of the net surface...

http://www.csi-concepts.com/Demo/videos/net.mp4

Some interesting features of the net surface.
--direction independent
--curve type independent
--curves do not need to touch (2 in prior 961, 20 in after)

Tim




From ACIS docs....

"If all of the curves intersect, then the surface passes through the curves and their intersections. If any of the u curves of the network do not intersect all of the v curves at some point, the intersection is interpolated. Culling of curves is a process that shortens curves in the resulting surface based on the intersections. However, curves are not extended to meet the intersection points. The original curves are not altered, but the surface defined from the net surface is bounded by the culled curves.
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
Kevin Quigley  
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:29:06 AM(UTC)
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Thats a good video but it also highlights one of the issues. In all the videos I see for surfacing the spline by points tool is used, yet when designing many designers prefer the spline by control points - it is far easier to get smoother curves this way.

When using the CV spline the only points you can ensure that touch the perpendicular cuves are the end points, yet it is the points in the curves within the surface that you often need to control.

It is great that the tool has this flexibility, but that is really only useful for demos and wild surfaces. Most of the time you are designing to specific requirements - to match existing surfaces or to control dimensions. What we really need is a constraint that applies to two crossing M and N curves to force an intersection - and ideally to allow that intersection point to be locked to a specific plane. Only when we have this will we be able to fully control the resultant surface with precision.
rockyroad_us  
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 9:11:41 PM(UTC)
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I disagree about the curves do not need to touch. I do a lot of organic shapes and I find myself correcting curves. In particular, I find myself moving an end point of a curve to actually touch the other curve's end point to avoid the m and n direction error. I usually find the error because a curve is not touching the other.

I have concluded that the snap end feature sometimes does not place the end point at the end of the curve. See for yourself and zoom to what your graphics cards allows and you'll find that the curves sometimes are not touching especially when you get that m and n error.
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jol  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2011 3:43:03 AM(UTC)
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Ernesto - are you talking about the net surface tool - or another surface tool ?
rockyroad_us  
#7 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2011 9:05:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jol Go to Quoted Post
Ernesto - are you talking about the net surface tool - or another surface tool ?


Yes. I'm talking about the net surface tool.
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zumer  
#8 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2011 5:33:12 PM(UTC)
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Ernesto, your observations point to you trying to make net surfaces from curves with gaps beyond tolerance, not that there's no tolerance.
rockyroad_us  
#9 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2011 5:57:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zumer Go to Quoted Post
Ernesto, your observations point to you trying to make net surfaces from curves with gaps beyond tolerance, not that there's no tolerance.


I'm sorry but who works beyond a tolerance of 2 inches or more. As far as I remember picking up cad, I've always snapped to the end of line so no tolerance. What I'm saying is that I can fix the m&n error by moving the end point to actually connect to the other curve's end point. I just find that the snap feature does not work all the time.
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zumer  
#10 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2011 6:25:16 PM(UTC)
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I think you're confusing the issues. If the snap doesn't work and your curves' gaps are within tolerance, you should get a result anyway.
la mouche  
#11 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 9:43:04 AM(UTC)
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Tim?!

[COLOR="Pink"][SIZE="7"]merci!![/SIZE][/COLOR]


:eek:


this demonstration and the new function is better than Pancho Villa

good job. my respects

Antoine
ALBANO  
#12 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 4:02:18 AM(UTC)
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Hello Tim,
so you suggest to loosen the precision for surface modeling and subsequent Solid generation? Doesnt this imply problems to? I havent tried but I think not all solid operations are possible when I build an open solid.
Would be really a great benefit if control points of curves could be "nailed" to edges/curves etc......
jol  
#13 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 8:44:39 AM(UTC)
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agree here Albano - but if I understand correctly, this requires some kind of "3D constraints" - which we don't yet have

At the very least, we should be able to 'match' one spline's point to another spline's point - so they are glued together for the purposes of surface networks
Tim Olson  
#14 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 10:52:18 AM(UTC)
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Here's more info on the net surface.

http://doc.spatial.com/index.php/Net_Surfaces

The only tolerance that we updated is the maximum distance used to govern the interpolation process used to create the NET surface if the curves do not intersect.

Tim
Tim Olson
IMSI Design/Encore
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